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World at War: Blood and Bridges» Forums » General

Subject: Question about the impact of chit draw rss

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Tom Stewart
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For some time now I've been looking for a quality, short wargame (1-2 hours), to add to my collection. That is actually a fairly hard thing to do I've found. Anyway, this game has gotten my attention. I have played ASLSK, Tide of Iron, Conflict of Heroes, and many many years ago played Panzer Blitz one or two times. These games are similiar in that they share ranged combat, if nothing else. But to me that is a relatively rare enough thing, at least it is in my personal collection.

WW:BB seems to have one major difference though in that it uses a chit draw system which determines which, if any, of your units can be activated for use. I'm wondering if this ends up having a significant impact on the play of the game from a tactical point of view. I have no doubt that it would add excitement to the game, but I wonder if one often feels that the strategy they had planned was completely ruined due to having an unlucky run of chit draws. I ask this question from a game-playing point of view, not from a realism point of view. I understand that in 'real life' all sorts of things happen that result in a breakdown of plans, but usually I look to movies and novels for that sort of tension and entertainment. Traditionally in a game I look for a bit less chaos (..although War of the RIng, a very chaotic game, suprised me in a very good way. I can't say it's a great strategy game - due to the amount of randomness, but it is darn fun. I suppose that's another story though..).

So is WW:BB a fairly deep, tactical game with a dose of chaos thrown in, or is it more of a game that is driven by the luck of the draw, and you just sort of hang on for the ride and make do with what you're given from turn to turn? I do realize in any case that it can be fun, and in the end that's what its all about. For me personally though, at this time, I'm looking for a semi-deep, 1-2 hour wargame of which the players do not feel the outcome is largely determined by random elements. Is this it?

Thanks for your help!
 
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Jeffry Welfare
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The chit draw can throw a spanner into the plan. This is probably more a problem for the Soviet forces who suffer from not only having the weaker C3 system (simulated by only having the 1 chit for it's formations) and usually burdened by being on the attack.

A plan could well suffer badly with an unlucky series of chit draws. Assuming that you have 1 NATO formation against 1 Soviet one you could possibly get 6 NATO activations in between 2 Soviet ones which would certainly risk turning the Soviet Battalion into a funeral pyre.

I'm not a fan of the chit draw system myself, but it does provide a system that accounts for the difference between the Soviet system and the NATO armies that have appeared in the game so far without overloading what is a fairly easy system to understand. And it is a good game.
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Pete Atack
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Quote:
I'm wondering if this ends up having a significant impact on the play of the game from a tactical point of view.


yes it can and yes it does. Does it do it to the point of detracting from the game? I don't think so. There will be turns where none of your units will activate, but there are rule mechanisms to make sure those units will activate the following turn.

And most of the scenarios are short enough that if the chit gods demolish you, resetting and playing again is not a deterent.

The larger scenarios suffer from a slightly differnt chit issue : that being if you have lots of NATO formations, you end up with a chit cup with loads of NATO chits and a relatively few Soviet chits. This is sometimes balanced by the Soviet "Designated Formation" chit (allows any formation to activate), but is my largest complaint with the current big scenarios.
 
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Bry Barnes
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Agree with Pete on that one.

I'm edging towards giving NATO formations just a single chit in the big scenarios and adding a couple of extra 'designated formation' markers for the Soviets, if only to stop the entire Soviet force ending up a smoking pile.
 
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Pete Atack
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What I've thought of 'house ruling' is reducing the NATO chits when they only field a few units. My "planning assumption" is that 1 tank platoon with an infantry platoon and HQ, for example, has some sort of reduced C&C thru attrition, so you could only use 1 chit instead of 2.

Use if the Designated Formation chit may also help in many scenarios.
 
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Steven Price
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I've hardly ever found WaW to engross me in deep thought, although sometimes that happens (when I can't decide what is a better plan), but I do find it fun.

I agree with the others: the big multi-formation scenarios in B&B turn into a NATO chit-fest. Introducing the 'designated formation' chit helps to balance things where you think they aren't.

Steven
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Mark Walker
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Quote:
6 NATO activations in between 2 Soviet ones which would certainly risk turning the Soviet Battalion into a funeral pyre.


No formation can go more than one turn without activation. So...six draws is immpossible...even with Op Fire.

Quote:
6 NATO activations in between 2 Soviet ones which would certainly risk turning the Soviet Battalion into a funeral pyre.


Yes, I would tend to agree... in ANY game...I'm just not a fan of million-counter battles (not that there are any of them). The major change that will be in the new rules is the requirement to activate when choosen...no more passing...that mitigates the NATO advantage...another element that I have added in some of the Battles within Battles scenarios that I have designed is chit selection...one side or the other can select the first chit...not randomely pull, but select.

Also, within the Battle within Battles mini-campaign all American formations get one chit. If you do REAL well, you might garner enough refit points to buy another. More info on the lock 'n Load Publsiging forums. http://www.locknloadgame.com...click FORUM link on left side.
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Jeffry Welfare
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Mark Holt Walker wrote:
Quote:
6 NATO activations in between 2 Soviet ones which would certainly risk turning the Soviet Battalion into a funeral pyre.


No formation can go more than one turn without activation. So...six draws is immpossible...even with Op Fire.


Got to respectfully disagree there Mark.

Turn 1. Soviet Formation
NATO Formation
NATO Formation
End Turn

Turn 2. NATO Formation
NATO Formation
End Turn

Turn 3.
NATO Formation
NATO Formation
Soviet Formation
End Turn

That is a valid cycle.

Anyway, I still think it is a great game, and I can't think of a better way to do it while keeping it as simple a game as it is so I can certainly live with it.
 
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Mark Walker
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yeah
you're right. Doesn't happen but once in a great while...but those are the types of things that happen in war.
 
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Jacek Krol

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JeffryW wrote:
Mark Holt Walker wrote:
Quote:
6 NATO activations in between 2 Soviet ones which would certainly risk turning the Soviet Battalion into a funeral pyre.


No formation can go more than one turn without activation. So...six draws is immpossible...even with Op Fire.


Got to respectfully disagree there Mark.

Turn 1. Soviet Formation
NATO Formation
NATO Formation
End Turn

Turn 2. NATO Formation
NATO Formation
SOVIET FORMATION
End Turn

Turn 3.
NATO Formation
NATO Formation
Soviet Formation
End Turn

That is a valid cycle.

Anyway, I still think it is a great game, and I can't think of a better way to do it while keeping it as simple a game as it is so I can certainly live with it.


After a turn without any activation, There would be only one 'End Turn' marker in the pot. The other markers would get back there only after the Soviet player had activated one of his formations.
So, turn two could not end without Soviet formation activating.
 
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Wulf Corbett
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Cyan001 wrote:
Turn 1. Soviet Formation
NATO Formation
NATO Formation
End Turn

Turn 2. NATO Formation
NATO Formation
SOVIET FORMATION
End Turn

Turn 3.
NATO Formation
NATO Formation
Soviet Formation
End Turn
After a turn without any activation, There would be only one 'End Turn' marker in the pot. The other markers would get back there only after the Soviet player had activated one of his formations.
So, turn two could not end without Soviet formation activating.
Yes it could - there's a Soviet activation in turn 1, so AFTER turn 2 the end markers are held, but turn 2 [b]can end with no Soviet activation.
 
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Jacek Krol

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I stand corrected.
I did not notice the Soviet activation at the beginning of turn one. You are right indeed, and it could really suck for Soviets to have THAT amount of bad luck.
 
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