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Subject: Stopping in straight-aways/beginning curves rss

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Ron Steinhauser
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I seem to recall a back-handed rule about stopping in a straight-away.
It didn't say you had to stop in a straight-away, it said you had to enter a curve starting from a straight-away space for the stop to count. So, if you started your move in a curve moved through a straight section and ended it in the next curve, the stop didn't count for that next curve. It comes out the same as saying you must stop in a straight-away, but it's more addressing the handling of the curve than the handling of the straight-away. Does anyone else recall this?
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René Christensen
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You don't have to stop at a straight!
That is the way you win this game!!
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If you miss a required stop in a turn and overshoot enough to stop in the next turn, that does not count as a stop (per Formula D rules) for that second turn..
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Mike Walters
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Astrolad is correct for Fomula De rules also.
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Daniel Sundström
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My interpretation of the rules (and feel free to correct me as I just got the game yesterday) is that it is allowed to go from one turn to a second turn passing a straight on the way as long as my make the necessary amount of stops in the turns. If the turn you start in has a requirement of one stop and you've stopped there once, you can go all the way to the second turn in one go and count that as one stop as well.
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Jack Beckman
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There appear to be two sets of rules. My copy of the game specifically says you *must* stop in the straights between the turns. If you go directly from one red turn area to another, then that does *not* count as a stop in the second turn. However, as I learned this year at WBC, there is another set of rules that does *not* say this, and in fact specifically is worded to allow going directly from one red turn area to another. These rules have a heading called "overshooting" on that section of rules. My rules just talk about turns and straights and do not mention overshooting.

Personally, I find the game too simple if you can just drive from one turn to another without stopping in-between. I'm wondering which set of rules is the most prevalent.
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Ron Steinhauser
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I have my rules right in front of me, and they agree with Jack. Under "LEAVING A CORNER ..Tyre Points", it says:
1) If in the same turn as leaving one corner he arrives in another, it does not count as a stop in the new corner (i.e. for a move to count as a stop in a corner, it must have begun on a straight).
2) He must carry on his movement in the same lane in which he left the corner.
3) If he is blocked by a car then he cannot overtake it. He is in a blocking situation.

If what Jack says is true, it explains a lot. I was playing at a friends house with his set and I spent about 20 minutes trying to find where it said this.
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Bart de Groot
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JackBeckman wrote:
There appear to be two sets of rules. My copy of the game specifically says you *must* stop in the straights between the turns. If you go directly from one red turn area to another, then that does *not* count as a stop in the second turn. However, as I learned this year at WBC, there is another set of rules that does *not* say this, and in fact specifically is worded to allow going directly from one red turn area to another. These rules have a heading called "overshooting" on that section of rules. My rules just talk about turns and straights and do not mention overshooting.

Personally, I find the game too simple if you can just drive from one turn to another without stopping in-between. I'm wondering which set of rules is the most prevalent.

This is not 2 versions, it is a misinterpretation. There are other postings on this topic I believe as well. Even though it might not have the heading overshooting, it is referring to overshooting. It is just poorly written. So it is the way you learned at the WBC.
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Jack Beckman
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Bart - read the above. It's pretty clear, not a "misinterpretation." That's exactly what my copy of the rules says ("for a move to count as a stop in a corner, it must have begun on a straight").

Yet when I read the rule titled "Overshooting" (which is *not* in my set of rules) at WBC in the GM's copy of the game, it clearly is worded to allow going directly from one corner to another.
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Bart de Groot
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JackBeckman wrote:
Bart - read the above. It's pretty clear, not a "misinterpretation." That's exactly what my copy of the rules says ("for a move to count as a stop in a corner, it must have begun on a straight").

Yet when I read the rule titled "Overshooting" (which is *not* in my set of rules) at WBC in the GM's copy of the game, it clearly is worded to allow going directly from one corner to another.

Ic, I'm sorry. I couldn't determine which part of your previous post was quote and which was interpretation. Which version of the game do you have? Maybe you can make a scan and share it so we can see what yours look like?

You could ask around what the prevalence of your version of the rules are. But I have a feeling it's mostly not played according to those rules you hold.
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Ken
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Caped Crusader wrote:
I have my rules right in front of me, and they agree with Jack. Under "LEAVING A CORNER ..Tyre Points",


You're sure this isn't under the rules for overshooting the corner? You don't spend tire points (or any wear points for leaving a corner) unless you've overshot the corner, so it may be more a problem of organization rather than the language of the rule. If that's the case, then the rules you're quoting should only apply when you don't make sufficient stops in the first corner.

I'm away from my set of rules, so I'll have to check when I get back from my trip.
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Big Sean
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It really is quite straightfoward!

The section which seems to be causing some concern and confusion is down to orginally poor translation and a little mis-interpretation.

If a car stops in the red area of a corner it is considered to have made a "stop". if the corner requires 2; another go must be completed and stopping within the confines of the corner and like wise for a 3 stop corner.

Leaving the corner and incurring penalties is where the confusion has arisen.

As above if a car enters a corner and stops it has considered to have made one "stop", if the next go the car exits the corner and makes the next corner this is absolutely fine and constitutes great driving, gear choice etc.

However if it was a 2 or 3 "stop" corner and the car fails to make the required number of stops these are taken as trye and brake penalties as per the rules on exiting the corner.

On a small number of circuits it is possible through poor driving and lack of engine/motor, brake and tyre points, to end a go in another corner.
This instance is where the confusion arises, as the "stop" in the second corner is not valid as there are penalties to be paid from the previous corner, a further "stop" or "stops" will be required. Most likely in this event the car would be eliminated as having insufficient points to pay for the penalties incurred.

There is no need to stop on the straights only in the corners as indicated by the number in the flag adjacent to the corner. Zooming from corner to corner and making the required stops is almost perfect driving and will undoubtedly put you in command of a race. Look at the likes of Schumacher, Alonso et al the staights are for speed the corners for tactics and taking the correct line, as simulated by the arrows on the board and the necessity to "stop" a certain amount of times.

I hope this helps clarify things.

For the record I have owned/played the game since 1991 and have been part of several championships using the rules as explained above.
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Jack Beckman
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There's no confusion. Did you read what was posted as a direct quote from the rules? "For a move to count as a stop in a corner, it must have begun on a straight" is a *direct quote* from the rules that came with my set.

I have seen the rules that have "overshooting" as a heading, and I agree that they do allow you to go from turn to turn directly. But "for a move to count as a stop in a corner, it must have begun on a straight" is pretty clear and not open to interpretation. For whatever reason it appears at some point the rules were changed.

I have no doubt that most people have the rules you have. I just find that makes for too easy a game.
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Scans of the actual rulebooks in question would be really helpful here.
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Jens KH
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JackBeckman wrote:
There's no confusion.


I see either confusion or intentional misinterpretation. And yes, apparently even *direct* quotes from the manual allow for that.

Exhibit a)
As previously pointed out already the part Ron posted is under "Tyre Points". You don't need tyre points unless you overshoot a corner.

Exhibit b)
Points 1-3 that Ron posted all apply in the context of overshooting corners only.

Exhibit c)
Everyone not new to the game seems to have told you already that this is what the rules are trying to say, and that the confusion is a result of bad organization and/or translation. The rules haven't changed.

All that aside, I fail to see how changing the rule makes the game any harder, anyway. It'll just become a bit longer because you need to add an extra stop on many straights.
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Jack Beckman
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Please tell me how *else* you can interpret the sentence "for a move to count as a stop in a corner, it must have begun on a straight"? How much clearer can it be?

I have read both versions of the rules. Obviously, some of you guys haven't. There's no "overshooting" section in the rules I have, everything is listed under corners and type points. If I have time in the next few days I'll post the ones I have.

All I'm doing is pointing out the very different wording of the rules, and I have some of you coming down on me like I can't read - when you *haven't even read the rules I'm talking about*. The one person who has agrees with me.

I have no doubt the rest of you have the other rules (I have no idea which is older, but I suspect the ones with "overshooting" in the heading - that most of you are using - are, as it's becoming apparent that most of you have them).

As for a "bad translation" - I guess I'd be curious as to why, if the rules were already in English, they were re-translated so differently. Why is it so impossible to believe that there might be another set of rules in some sets? It's not like I'm ordering you to play by those rules. Had I never been to WBC, I would never have know any other set.

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Jens KH
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Here's a scan of the rules, and it even has the fix:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/7686

The original rules for the game were in French, and apparently someone noticed they were not translated correctly and fixed it for later editions. Happens all the time. So, wording was fixed, (intended) rules didn't change.
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Bart de Groot
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If you insist on playing your mistranslated rules, just play them. Whatever your fancy. Make up your own rules! It's just a game. You know now how the rule is supposed to be played, so just pick one!
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Jack Beckman
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Thanks for the scan, Jens - that what I have (minus the corrections). Where did you get the errata?

Bart - as for "insisting on mistranslated rules" - take a chill pill! Sheesh. All I said was that it appeared that there were two sets of rules, and that I preferred the ones I had. I was also curious as to how widespread the two sets were. I never tried to force them down your throat. You make it sound like I'm on some crusade to force everyone else to play by them.
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Bart de Groot
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Take a chill pill? Back at ya!
 
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Ken
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If you use the rules as you have them translated, you can never handle multi-stop turns without the car being destroyed. Since you can't ever make a second or third stop from a straight, you'll never be able to handle multi-stop turns.
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Jack Beckman
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Ken - did you read the PDF? Before the errata change, it specifically says from one corner to another. Once you're in the corner that doesn't apply.

 
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Ron Steinhauser
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Jens -
Vielen Danke! I'm going to a big game party tomorrow, and we're likely going to be playing Formula De a bit. I've had the game for many years, and it's nice to finally know the deal on this. Thanks for scouting out that errata!
 
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