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Subject: Intellectually and rationally superior rss

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John So-And-So
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(Split off to avoid threadjack.)

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Plus then you have to continually assert that your skepticism and standards of proof make you intellectually and rationally superior

I'm tired of playing nice to avoid this allegation.

Yes, theists. I believe we are intellectually and rationally superior to you in this area.

There's really no way around it. You can't continue to engage in anti-intellectualism and irrationality, and then bitch and moan that we don't respect your arguments. I don't respect your arguments because they aren't good. It's that simple.

You're not stupid; or lesser people. It's like you made a subpar move in a board game and then want to defend why you did it. It's mildly annoying at worst. I'm just tired of pretending like your bad move has as much validity as a good move. It doesn't. It is intellectually and rationally inferior, and as long as you champion it, you are those things as well.
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Well, according to the all knowing and infallible wikipedia, intelligence is one of the associated qualities of rationality. So I think it would be safe to say using rationality in an argument is a sign of a more intelligent statement.
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A theist and atheist come up to a dog.

atheist points: "Dog!"
theist points: "Chicken!"
atheist: "Idiot."
theist: "Condescending Elitist."

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Wray Cason
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CapAp wrote:
(Split off to avoid threadjack.)

Quote:
Plus then you have to continually assert that your skepticism and standards of proof make you intellectually and rationally superior

I'm tired of playing nice to avoid this allegation.

Yes, theists. I believe we are intellectually and rationally superior to you in this area.

There's really no way around it. You can't continue to engage in anti-intellectualism and irrationality, and then bitch and moan that we don't respect your arguments. I don't respect your arguments because they aren't good. It's that simple.

You're not stupid; or lesser people. It's like you made a subpar move in a board game and then want to defend why you did it. It's mildly annoying at worst. I'm just tired of pretending like your bad move has as much validity as a good move. It doesn't. It is intellectually and rationally inferior, and as long as you champion it, you are those things as well.


As with a game, sometimes an apparently bad move turns out to be a good one. It is clearer when looking back. In the spirit of this metaphor, when I am accused of making a stupid move, I respond that we shall see.
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Paul Sauberer
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CapAp wrote:
(Split off to avoid threadjack.)

Quote:
Plus then you have to continually assert that your skepticism and standards of proof make you intellectually and rationally superior

I'm tired of playing nice to avoid this allegation.

Yes, theists. I believe we are intellectually and rationally superior to you in this area.

There's really no way around it. You can't continue to engage in anti-intellectualism and irrationality, and then bitch and moan that we don't respect your arguments. I don't respect your arguments because they aren't good. It's that simple.

You're not stupid; or lesser people. It's like you made a subpar move in a board game and then want to defend why you did it. It's mildly annoying at worst. I'm just tired of pretending like your bad move has as much validity as a good move. It doesn't. It is intellectually and rationally inferior, and as long as you champion it, you are those things as well.


The problem with your viewpoint is that you fail to see that theists are just as rational as you are. Just like you, they examine evidence and arrive at a conclusion.

You limit the definition of rationality in a self serving manner. You arbitrarily toss out evidence that runs counter to what supports your own conclusion.

The irony is that it is also self-contradictory. You insist that only things that are empirically demonstrable are valid to acknowledge as existence. yet this foundational statement itself is not empirically verifiable.

It is like accepting a statement of someone who says, "Everything I say is a lie" at face value and proceed from there without recognizing that the initial statement itself is nonsense.

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Andrew Gross
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Psauberer wrote:
You arbitrarily toss out evidence that runs counter to what supports your own conclusion.


I don't think that word means what you think it means.
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Chaddyboy
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I would guess there's more evidence out there as to the existence of God than your claim of being intellectually and rationally superior.
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Paul Sauberer
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andrewgr wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
You arbitrarily toss out evidence that runs counter to what supports your own conclusion.


I don't think that word means what you think it means.


I'll play the dictionary game and go with that definition

Quote:
that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.


What is your problem with that?
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CapAp wrote:
(Split off to avoid threadjack.)

Quote:
Plus then you have to continually assert that your skepticism and standards of proof make you intellectually and rationally superior

I'm tired of playing nice to avoid this allegation.

Yes, theists. I believe we are intellectually and rationally superior to you in this area.

There's really no way around it. You can't continue to engage in anti-intellectualism and irrationality, and then bitch and moan that we don't respect your arguments. I don't respect your arguments because they aren't good. It's that simple.

You're not stupid; or lesser people. It's like you made a subpar move in a board game and then want to defend why you did it. It's mildly annoying at worst. I'm just tired of pretending like your bad move has as much validity as a good move. It doesn't. It is intellectually and rationally inferior, and as long as you champion it, you are those things as well.

I find it interesting that you apparently believe you are a being who understands how things really are and who possesses superior intellect, yet you deny the possibility of someone like God.

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Andrew Gross
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Psauberer wrote:
andrewgr wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
You arbitrarily toss out evidence that runs counter to what supports your own conclusion.


I don't think that word means what you think it means.


I'll play the dictionary game and go with that definition

Quote:
that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.


What is your problem with that?


It is not necessary for me to arbitrarily toss out anything that could remotely be considered "evidence" for the existence of God, since no such evidence exists.

I'm fairly sure that you are confusing "evidence" with "argument". There are indeed arguments for the existence of God. I don't "arbitrarily" toss out those arguments; I toss them out because they suck.
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CapAp wrote:
Yes, theists. I believe we are intellectually and rationally superior to you in this area.


Generalize much?

So *all* atheist are intellectually and rationally superior than *all* theists in this area?

Quote:
There's really no way around it. You can't continue to engage in anti-intellectualism and irrationality, and then bitch and moan that we don't respect your arguments. I don't respect your arguments because they aren't good. It's that simple.


Who are you talking to? I don't think I've done any of the things that you've accused me of...

The difference between you and many theists is that they can admit the possibility that they don't know everything and could be wrong.

It sure must be nice and convenient to lump everyone you disagree with into one big group. It sure saves the time of actually listening and getting to know people. It's far easier to apply a generic label and react to that rather than actually considering what other people have to say. If I did that too it would probably save me a lot of time and simplify my world view...

Your bizarre us vs. them, black and white perspective is ultimately harmful and has led to far more bloodshed, war, bitterness and unhappiness, than religion could ever manage to achieve.
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GAWD wrote:
Didn't get any sucky-sucky last night eh ... Cap?

Maybe not. (I, OTOH, got plenty.) Cap's still right.
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William Boykin
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There are very few people who feel that their own ideology of choice 'might' be wrong....

I love how 'Certain' some atheists are. I also love how many Theists have 'Doubt'. Its these shades of grey that make life so interesting...

Darilian

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Like I said earlier I am fully willing to concede the point that atheists are intellectually and rationally superior, I just want you guys to admit that you think that way, and that is the main reason why you refuse to equate atheism as a form of belief.

For what it's worth, I don't really consider myself a theist. I am more of a apositivist. It is not really a belief. I just deny in the claim that empirical proof is the only valid proof. Can all theists in this RSP forum take note to label yourself properly, please!
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CapAp wrote:

Yes, theists. I believe we are intellectually and rationally superior to you in this area.


Go on. Don't hide behind, "I believe" anymore.

Unzip, disentagle, slap it down on the table with a "Check this fucker out boys", and then prove that "Atheists are intellectually and rationally superior to theists."
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MWChapel wrote:
A theist and atheist come up to a dog.

atheist points: "Dog!"
theist points: "Chicken!"
atheist: "Idiot."
theist: "Condescending Elitist."



A theist and an atheist come up to a dog.

The atheist points: "Dog!"
The dog replies: "Is this another one of those chicken jokes? 'Cuz I fucking hate those."
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Paul Sauberer
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chiddler wrote:

We fail to see it for the same reason you fail to see giant blue penguins tapdancing in the street. We don't see it because its not there.

Sometimes, some folks are just plain wrong and thats all their is to it. Theres not 2 sides to the argument. Theres no argument.


I see the potential for a bumper sticker

Chiddler said it. I internalize it. That settles it.
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VETRHUS of Rogaland
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CapAp wrote:
(Split off to avoid threadjack.)

Quote:
Plus then you have to continually assert that your skepticism and standards of proof make you intellectually and rationally superior

I'm tired of playing nice to avoid this allegation.

Yes, theists. I believe we are intellectually and rationally superior to you in this area.

There's really no way around it. You can't continue to engage in anti-intellectualism and irrationality, and then bitch and moan that we don't respect your arguments. I don't respect your arguments because they aren't good. It's that simple.

You're not stupid; or lesser people. It's like you made a subpar move in a board game and then want to defend why you did it. It's mildly annoying at worst. I'm just tired of pretending like your bad move has as much validity as a good move. It doesn't. It is intellectually and rationally inferior, and as long as you champion it, you are those things as well.


That's the most aggressively ignorant line of thinking that I have ever read.

But I admire your honesty John.

Theists do not have to defend their beliefs any more than you do.

Those who do try to rationalize faith and miss that faith is its own reward.

Those who oppose faith try to destroy it by rational thought or temporal arguments that are bound by space and time. Those attacks do nothing to dissuade or weaken the faith of the believers. Instead they galvanize their sense of martyrdom and mystical wisdom.

Meanwhile, the insecure segment of the mystical realm of faith bunker themselves and effort to become apologists for something which was never meant to be the answer to an equation or the victorious side of an argument.

They inevitably run into a narrowly focused line of reasoning based on one-dimensional scientific endeavors, or folks who abuse the objectivity of science by cutting and pasting theoretical finding which support their own world view.

But these folks cannot see beyond their own world, despite their espousal of enlightened relativism. They only allow those who fit their own definition of relative humanism to in fact, BE relative humanists, or at least to utilize the same freedom of thought and expression which they champion with their left hand, but rend with their right.

Those who haven't chosen a side in these battles are often casualties of the bitter disputes which have unfolded around their own lives. These folks are recruited by the militant wings of both sides and are made to feel as outcasts if they don't fit one side or another.

Still, many sign up, only to be shocked the the hypocrisy of one side or another, and their own inability to suspend their own intellects or their own divine sparks, or both.

All this inspired the salespeople among them to drive deeper wedges between these schizmatic groups in order to create ways to make money from the wartime economies.

These folks prey upon those who pray often more easily than those who do not, because they know how to instigate or inflate the sense of martyrdom of the faithful, and to consequently infuriate the intellectual opposition.

But who is the one with faith? Is it the one who believes in a divine being who can lend ethereal separation from this fray, or a purpose for those who are within it? Or is it the one who believes that the people around him who have told him/her that there is no truth, only the measurable? What if their measuring stick is far too short to reach?

Who is it that displays reason or logic? Is it one who relies only upon what is seen or felt or heard? How repeatable is the human condition? And is a couple hundred years of research enough to assure anyone that a couple more will not prove us to be sincerely deluded? Or is it the one who embraces the logic from within, the indefinable reality which they have found when they gazed upon their own navel or found vision at the end of their quest?

What does it matter? I mean, if the theist is wrong, is their faith a waste? Who says it is? It is illogical if it produced measurable faith and the improvement of life around them? Isn't that reasonable?

What does it matter? I mean, if an atheist is right, will that make a difference? Is their lack of faith going to do anything to improve the world around them? Will the eradication of faith improve the world? Will it have inspired others to achieve great things in science? What if it does, does that make it worthy of faith?
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Scott Russell
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I say agnostics are intellectually and rationally superior. The existence of God cannot be proved or disproved and to believe otherwise is irrational.

cool
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Drew1365 wrote:
I submit that this overreliance on cold materialism has deadened the internal 'tuning fork' that would otherwise be singing away from contact with the grand ineffable.


Cool! Are you going to join a back-to-the-land movement to help put yourself more in touch with your agrarian, rural inner self?
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Have you read Malcolm Gladwell's Blink?
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Psauberer wrote:
The problem with your viewpoint is that you fail to see that theists are just as rational as you are.


That's not what they say about themselves. They mostly proclaim that faith is not subject to reason, nor should it be.

I'm not sure what this thread is about since I don't think most theists argue that their belief is rational. They only argue they believe it.
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A theist and an atheist talk about Agricola:

theist: What a neat design.
atheist: Yeah, it is.

A theist and an atheist talk about life:

theist: What an amazing design.
atheist: Idiot.
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David desJardins
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WhiteKong wrote:
New studies in micro-facial expression recognition have shown that the "creepy" feeling you get about someone is really just your brain recognizing and categorizing the facial expression you see.


That's only because you're doing those studies in the post-modern world. If you went back 10,000 years to study pre-civilized humans, you'd find they all had ESP. It's just that modern society and its curse of rationality has deadened such spiritual traits.
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