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Subject: Who wins in a draw game. rss

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Martin W.
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Two player have the same amount of point in the end. Are there further mechanisms to determine a final winner (or do both players win the game)?
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Both players win. There might be some tie-breaker rules in a future expansion (but definitely NOT in the upcoming one).
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Martin W.
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Thanks a lot. First win for my wife though. At least I've never lost in Agricola

EDIT: Can you please tell me the exact location of the rule (German rulebook).
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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There is no rule. No rule about tie-breakers = no tie-breakers.
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Geoff Burkman
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My crew and I have had a number of tied games, though surprisingly, not all that many. One of the ways we thought of to "resolve" ties is to see which player has the least surplus resources at game's end, i.e. wood, clay, reed, and stone. Another might be who has the least surplus food.

Beyond that, I agree: both players win.
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Scott O'Brien
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Connellsville
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Quote:
End of the game
The game ends after the Harvest at the end of the 14th round (Stage 6), after which the players’ scores are calculated. There is a scoring overview on the back of the board for Major Improvements and on the back of the Summary card, and the scoring is detailed on
page 8.
Tally each player’s Victory Points on the scoring sheet. The player with the most points is the winner. If there is a tie, the tied players share the victory (or can play another game of Agricola to break the tie). the winner is the person who can shout the loudest about the other person being a moron.
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Philip Eve
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MisterG wrote:
My crew and I have had a number of tied games, though surprisingly, not all that many. One of the ways we thought of to "resolve" ties is to see which player has the least surplus resources at game's end, i.e. wood, clay, reed, and stone. Another might be who has the least surplus food.

Beyond that, I agree: both players win.

Why would having "surplus resources" be considered a negative, though? I mean yes, the game is about being efficient, but it makes no sense in the context to say, "having extra food and building materials lying around your farm is bad". Your middle-ages German farmer guy isn't going to look around at his farm and go "Oh no, I have too much food, whatever shall I do!" He probably is pleased because he can barter it with his neighbours for beer or something.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Having surplus resources should rather be considered better than having the least. Evidently, I've achieved more than any tied player if I have many resources left. However, I wouldn't consider this a good tie-breaker anyway. Whoever happend to get some more resources that were lying around on an action field, shouldn't break the tie. Even less should one be awarded for not taking huge piles of resources.

There will be a cool tiebreaker in a future expansion. Just be patient.
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james napoli
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the only reasonable tie breaker i would say is reverse turn order. where the player who went closest to last should be the winner.
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Bryann Turner
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There SHOULD NOT be a tie breaker in Agricola. I repeat, there SHOULD NOT be a tie breaker in Agricola.

Agricola is a game with many paths to victory, why should one person in the tie be punished for not having so much of this when he has so much of that? Or why should someone who won because of lots of improvements be punished for having 1 less field than his tied opponent?

The game's tie breaker is all there needs to be: play more games until one person beats the other.
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Tiwaz Tyrsfist
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Gladstone
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If you REALLY want a tie breaker, I'd say that in the event of a tie, the person with the most points from their farm itself wins. That is to say, consider the scores MINUS the points from Occupations and Improvements, only the points for having animals, fields, family, etc.

But personally, I don't feel the need to ALWAYS declare an absolute winner. Tying is fine.
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Randall Bart
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btizo wrote:
Agricola is a game with many paths to victory, why should one person in the tie be punished for not having so much of this when he has so much of that? Or why should someone who won because of lots of improvements be punished for having 1 less field than his tied opponent?

Why should one player be punished for having fewer points than another?
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Lord Chambers
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btizo wrote:
The game's tie breaker is all there needs to be: play more games until one person beats the other.

Agreed.

So as a distant, distant, mostly meaningless distinguisher between first and second place players, we break ties by most food. Having resources, like someone mentioned, might indicate greater efficiency because the player is able to amass more wood, stone, clay, and reed than someone else, but it also might indicate inefficiency because they clearly accumulated what they couldn't use in the finite 14 rounds. Food is a fair tiebreaker because the ways to generate it are limited and earning points essentially comes down to collecting stuff (vegetables, grain, and animals) which all can be used for food. This food then, is like a predecessor of points, and if two players score the same and one has more food, means one player overproduced some of that important stuff.

If there are to be tournaments involving Agricola, or any serious competitive play, there needs to be a tiebreaking mechanic. For lack of anything better, food ought to count for it. If someone doesn't possess the means to convert excess wood, stone, clay, or reed to food, then the player ought not get "points" for it.
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Bryann Turner
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Barticus88 wrote:
Why should one player be punished for having fewer points than another?


There is no punishment, only defeat. With a tiebreaker, you punish someone who played just as effectively, only taking a different path. This isn't true in many games, but in Agricola it most definitely is.

TiwazTyrsfist wrote:
If you REALLY want a tie breaker, I'd say that in the event of a tie, the person with the most points from their farm itself wins. That is to say, consider the scores MINUS the points from Occupations and Improvements, only the points for having animals, fields, family, etc.


Again, you're punishing a player who decided to go the Manufacturer + Braggart + Village Elder route. Or player who bought a Well instead of renovating to Stone. Or the player who has 1 less family member but has a fully functioning Joinery.

Agricola doesn't need a tiebreaker. Period.

EDIT: Removed arbitrary.
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Trey Chambers
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How about whoever played the fewest cards? Still arbitrary, but no more so than the other suggestions.
 
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Tim Stellmach
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btizo wrote:
Agricola doesn't need an arbitrary tiebreaker. Period.


Saying "arbitrary" is already setting yourself up against a straw man. You might as well say "Agricola doesn't need a poopy ol' tiebreaker" as far as your argument goes.

Now, I agree that it doesn't need one, mind you. Except perhaps for the odd occassion where there are prizes at stake.
 
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Bryann Turner
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timstellmach wrote:
Now, I agree that it doesn't need one, mind you. Except perhaps for the odd occassion where there are prizes at stake.


Now, Tournament Agricola is a different thing entirely, and there should be some form of tie breaking system, but it should be outside the scope of the game. For example, if it's the second round, the player with the highest score in the first round is the winner.

Now, if there's a tie in the first round, then perhaps they can flip a coin. devil
 
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Mi Myma
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Fountain Valley
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Another possible way to break a tie is to play one more round. No new action cards come out, you just use the same ones from round 14, and advance the season, if you're playing with TtS. Then have another harvest after this, and then count points again.

Extra innings. Like baseball - both have fields, "farms", "animals", wood, clay, traveling players, occupations, ...

But yes, the only reason you need a tiebreaker is for tournaments or prizes.
 
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Geoff Burkman
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Phil Fleischmann wrote:
...But yes, the only reason you need a tiebreaker is for tournaments or prizes.


Or, as in the case with my crew, wherein we award the winner of the game the right to go first in the next game
 
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M Hellyer
United States
Aurora
Illinois
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There should be a tie-breaker in Agricola, as there should be for every game. There should be one final factor that will make or break a victory. It seems pointless to play a game for a couple hours and not have a winner.
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