Tomas Riha
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Göteborg
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Hi there,

Im new to these boards and Im just returning back to serious board gaming after many many years. For the last 10s of years Ive mostly played computer games due to lack of friends who enjoy board games. But I really really want back into the board/rpg gaming.

Ive been eyeballing the coop games because they will bring something new to my game experience while reusing something old (I used to play rpgs when younger). I think I might have a game group going at work and I plan to introduce a co-op game there. Most of them are computer rpg players and mainly WoW so I think a themed co-op should work grate.

Then I have the secondary aspect which is my wife. If I can get her into it that would be great.

Another reason Im looking at co-op players vs game type of games is that well if no one else wants to play then at least I can play it my self. :/

The game Im eyeballing most out of my own interest is Arkham. But I think its quite a hard sell due to advanced rules and long play time.

I think that the description of this game as a Arkham light is very appealing but at the same time worrisome.

What appeals to me with Arkham (from what i read) is the sence of darkness pressing on. Ive played some Ghost Stories and while the adventure feeling is missing there (though its a great puzzle) it does great a great feeling of evil pressing the attack. Ive looked at some of the zombie game with interest due to this but they will be a very hard sell (at home and with the group).

What worries me in the reviews of this game is that many say villans are not hard enough and I get a sence that the minions dont really press the attack.

Do the minions roam around the map or are they stationary where they spawned??

I like the death if not attended to KO house rule as that definatly adds to the flavour (always a fan of death in games and seriously believe gamers of today are spoiled with low death penatlies, not sure my group agrees though). But are there more house rules or adjustments that can be made inorder to increase the sence of evil pressing its attack?? Or is it not really needed??

How is the sence of adventure in this game?? Its one of the always reoccuring things I read about arkham, how good the sence of adventure is. Does this game have the same immersion level or is it "light" in this aspect as well??

Thanks in advance
TexMurphy
 
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Tristan Hall
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Manchester
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Minions only occasionally roam and bump each other along the line to the town hall, which increases the overall danger.
You can house rule it all you like but as the game stands with all the advanced rules and the advanced showdown chart it can be very challenging. We only usually play with 2-4 players (although it plays very well - and quickly - with just 1) but have won as often as lost.
The gameplay is based heavily on Arkham Horror but is definitely much lighter. There aren't as many tracks and chits and events and cards to keep track of, and certainly nowhere near as many expansions (yet) so it is indeed a "lighter" experience.
However, it is also great fun, quick to learn, tongue in cheek and a good starting point. Once you've got everyone hooked on this, you can gradually introduce them to the slithering doom of Arkham Horror . . .

goo
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Cameron McKenzie
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Generally, minions don't move unless instructed to by a mystery card. For the most part, they are just there to get in your way.

However, most of the villains have some kind of exception.

The Werewolf can have Rat Nest that spawn a chain of rats that keep expanding. Once they reach town hall, the shadow track starts moving, so there is pressure to take out the nest before the rats make it all the way.

The Horseman can spawn Barghest Hounds which will go after Heroes every round. Weak or wounded Heroes need to stay far away from them.

The scarecrow can create huge numbers of crows. They don't move around at all, but if more than one crow ever appears in the same space, it moves the shadow track instead. Since crows appear in a large area, leaving them alone is a huge risk. Another spawn in the same spot will move the shadow track several spaces at once.

The vampire doesn't have any minions that will chase people around or cause the shadow track to move, but boy does he have a lot of them. You will have a hard time getting anywhere if you can't fight.


The coop game is a lot about using your turns (which are limited) effectively to prepare yourself for the showdown. Minions generally aren't a big threat, because even if you get knocked out you just get up next turn. They are basically just there to slow you down.

We've only lost once playing the advanced game rules, as we always end up with one super-powered Hero who can do most of the damage to the villain on his own, but we've never use the special showdown rules. I will try them next time and suspect it will make the game MUCH tougher as the showdown is usually pretty close and is the climax of the game.
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Wouter Dhondt
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I have both. The biggest problem with A touch of Evil is that you don't get any sense of dread. It just doesn't feel like the world is going to end and the situation is getting worse every minute building the pressure (like Arkham Horror). You're just walking around having minor encounters. As a result the game feels a little bland and you have no connection with the investigators.

It's not a bad game. But I wouldn't reject Arkham just cause it might be more complicated. The return is that much higher and there are excellent flowcharts that will help out when learning the game.
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Gordy Crozier
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I think this is a good starting point especially for getting other people into the games. I have both games and wouldn't dream of introducing Arkham to my group of friends straight off the bat, A Touch of Evil is a great introduction to Co-op gaming and to a more complicated rule set than Monopoly or Clue especially if you think it may be a hard sell.
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Tomas Riha
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MasterDinadan wrote:
The coop game is a lot about using your turns (which are limited) effectively to prepare yourself for the showdown. Minions generally aren't a big threat, because even if you get knocked out you just get up next turn. They are basically just there to slow you down.


Kwakkie wrote:
I have both. The biggest problem with A touch of Evil is that you don't get any sense of dread. It just doesn't feel like the world is going to end and the situation is getting worse every minute building the pressure (like Arkham Horror). You're just walking around having minor encounters. As a result the game feels a little bland and you have no connection with the investigators.


These two qoutes is exactly what worries me with this game. I think that the rule posted in the variations forum (that a hero who is knocked down has to be saved by another player or he dies) will help alot to increase the sence of danger. But since the minions are minor encounters and often stationary I dont think that the sence of "darkness is moving in" can be that big.

Well I guess partially this might be correct for the game as the villans are minor compared to the great old ones in AH. So I guess they shouldnt create as much darkness.

Still I do want the fear element to be pressing and to make stocking up on equip a tradeoff.

But I guess Im thinking a bit too much on what I want (and I want Arkham) and not as much on group and gf. I think that group and gf will be better of with the easier and faster play game, to start with.

Tex
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Krzysztof Zięba
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Kraków
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True, you don't have this feeling of tension when the Darkness Track comes closer to 0, but it does give you the feeling that you have to find the villain quickly or else lose.
The way this game plays for me, usually, is a bit like Talisman (hear me out, this isn't a bad thing!):
- you build up your character, getting Investigation, items and knowledge about the Village Elders.
- Once you're ready, you pick a Lair card so you can track down the Villain
- Provided nobody does it earlier than you, you fight the Villain and possibly win: unless the other players screw it up for you.

That's the competitive game. The co-operative game plays a tad differently, and a lot more happens with a special table you roll on each turn etc. I personally feel that the co-op game falls a bit short of expectations. It's ok, but it is very hard due to the incresed number of wounds the Villain has and it feels like some things that increase difficulty are quite arbitrary.

That said, this may not be exactly what you're looking for, but it IS a very good game overall, especially when taking into account the components. I found that I knew what I was doing in this game, while during my single game of Arkham Horror I just wandered aimlessly not knowing what to do. Also, ATOE does not have any useless features. In AH I feel that money is completely useless, for example.
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Sean P
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I would go along with a lot of the answers here and recommend ATOE first. I own and play both games. My 13 year old daughter LOVES ATOE. My wife liked it too, and they both have since stated they would be interested in Arkham. It's a bit of a jump from a 1 hour moderately difficult game to 3-4 hour game where the Mythos cards are more complicated than all of ATOE.

If you can afford to buy ATOE now and Arkham in a couple months I would do it that way. They are both fun games, but having a lighter adventure game around is never a bad thing.

Hell, just buy them both tomorrow. (And make sure you download Skeletor's flow chart for Arkham.)

And for the record we're about 30% success rate in the coop game mode.
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Gordon Adams
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Tex, like yourself, I have been away from board-gaming since university and now trying to find my way back to RPGs.
Choosing games was a bit chaotic at first , sort of grabbing at every one that looked good (not a good idea). The art work on the box does not make a good game. However, I found BGG and that has helped me a lot (along with videos with Scott and Tom Vasel).
Arkham is a great game, imho, and I play it solo (it has a special humungous table of it's own ! laugh). Infact, I play a lot of solo games or solo variants and find most of them very entertaining. However, when I get my weekend guests round, we play a wide variety....this will be THE one this weekend. It is still unopened !
I would very much like to hear what you have decided (and if you buy this....what you think of it).
Kind regards,
Gordon
 
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