Scott Kuhn
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The rule:
"If any Gruppen in the Bomber box are not intercepted, then a matching number of Gruppen in the Close Escort Box are also considered not intercepted and are not included in the ensuing squadron attack."

The example:
Large raid of 16 gruppen: #3 fighters on combat patrol, #3 fighters on close escort, #4 fighters on the hunt, 6 bombers.... Attacked by a squadron of 5 fighters...4 are intercepted by the hunt and 1 gets through to the bomber box...I have 3 close escort Gruppen that cannot engage that one squadron due to the rules...Seems counter intuitive...

What exactly is the point of close escort ??? Doesn't seem help much. Even if they could strafe, it would make sense but they cannot if one squadron gets through (if no squadrons get throught they can strafe), They are put aside into the inflight box without contributing anything.....

Am I missing something ???

Scott
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Andrzej Fiett
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And similar question:

Eagle, 8.1 Hunters Intercept Squadrons
"Fewer Gruppen than squadrons in the Hunt Box: Roll the die. If the die result is less than or equal to the number of excess squadrons in the Hunt Box, all squadrons stay in the Hunt Box. If die result is greater than number of excess squadrons, all excess squadrons move to the Bomber Box".

For example:
2 Gruppen vs 4 squadrons - break through on a die roll of 3, 4, 5, 6.
2 Gruppen vs 6 squadrons - break through on a die roll of 5, 6.

So the greater is RAF squadrons advantage, the lesser is chance of excess squadrons to break through to the bombers. Why?

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Christopher Schall
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This question (or similar) came up during my play testing. Here is my question and John's response. No doubt he will clarify further.

Question:
In both modules I have, I was not sure why close escorts must match non-intercepted bombers. Shouldn’t some still be with the bombers that get intercepted? Or does this assume that the escorts are herding the rest away from the squadrons?

Answer:
You are not the only one asking about the procedure for close escort matching. I think of it this way: when there are more bombers than close escort fighters, the German player must choose which of his bombers will be protected and which won't. Those that remain unprotected are then easy targets for the British squadrons. What if the procedure were presented in that order instead? Of course, this is not an issue when the German player employs the smart tactic of having as many CE fighters as bombers, or the even more effective tactic of having MORE CE fighters than bombers, because the excess CE fighters always participate in the Squadron attack.
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Andrzej Fiett
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This answer is also in Lion vs Eagle rule book, on page 30.

But I still deliberate "predominant squadrons penalty" I described earlier.
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John Butterfield
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Scott -- Christopher's response to your CE question captures the essence. Also see my design notes on P.30 of the 2-Player rules. Historically, during the August raids, bombers that were under-escorted tended to get mauled by the RAF. When the Germans upped the escorts to match the bombers in September, bomber losses went down (although German fighter losses increased). So the lesson is, CE is effective when all bombers are escorted.
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John Butterfield
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Andrzej -- In answer to your question about Eagle rule 8.1. Keep in mind that Squadrons that receive a "no effect" or "Disrupted" result in the Hunter attack will move on to the Bomber box to intercept bombers. In your example, if 6 squadrons face just 2 Gruppen in the Hunt Box, it is to the British advantage to stay. The combat will be very much in the British favor, most likely resulting in loss to the fighter Gruppen with most of the squadrons then moving on the Bomber box to attack the bombers.

If there are just 4 squadrons against 2 fighters in the Hunt Box, the chances of squadrons surviving the Hunter attack to move to the Bomber Box are much less, so it makes sense to take the sure thing of moving two squadrons to the Bomber box before the hunter attack.

If you were playing the RAF in Lion or 2-Player, I think a look at the combat table would convince you to keep 6 squadrons in the hunt box against 2 fighters. The die roll in Eagle 8.1 models the excess squadrons choosing between taking on the fighters if the odds look really good, or pressing on to the bombers.
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Andrzej Fiett
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Thank you, John. I must think over your clarification.
 
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Scott Kuhn
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Thanks....

I gave this thread a thumbs up, not because I started it but because of all the insightful responses I recieved....They were very helpful...

Scott
 
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