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Subject: Lore Council Level (How much is too much?) rss

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Jon
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Hey fellow geeks,

So the wench and I are working our way through the base game and finally got to the "design you own Lvl 6 Council" (apologies I'm on the road and the campaign book is at home).

Anyhow, other than the restriction that requires a lv 1 Commander are there any rules on how I set up the rest of my council? Could I for example Lv 1 Commander, Lv 3 Wiz, Lv 2 Rougue?

What about exceeding the number printed on the war council handout. So Lv 1 Commander and then Lv 5 Cleric (guessing I would still max at 4 lore cards)?

 
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Robert Taylor-Smith
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I just recently got Battlelore and I've noticed the rules get pretty fuzzy around this, or vague, or... just a poor rulebook.

Based on some sections in the lore council rules, in particular page 56 bottom right, I've assumed the largest a council member can be is level three. There is a suggestion in the rules to keep the total levels to six. The rules are also somewhat silent if more than one landmark is allowed per side assuming more than one (level three) council member. I'm assuming it's allowed. All the rulebook states is that landmark placing is scenario (oops, adventure) specified. There is no restriction in the rulebook that you have to have a level one commander (who isn't a loremaster). You would be limited to 3 command cards with no commander. It is specified in Adventure 10 notes that the commander has to be at least level 1. I've also had to assume the revealing of each sides council makeup is done simultaneously, although the rulebook on page 58 implies this.

The above isn't the most annoying rulebook lapse for me. I wish a detailed end of turn sequence was in the rulebook, or just a complete detailed turn sequence. For example, I just had to assume the lore deck was reshuffled when empty. It isn't stated so in the rules. But exactly when in the turn sequence, right when first empty or when someone wants to draw a card. It makes a big difference.

The rulebook could be a tenth the length by ditching the useless pretty graphics and tossing them into a separate booklet. Is a 80 page! rulebook really needed for such a simple game? Defines rulebook bloat for me. I just wish a rules editor/writer had been employed instead of an image artist.
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Christopher Dodge
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JPFrancum wrote:
Hey fellow geeks,

Anyhow, other than the restriction that requires a lv 1 Commander are there any rules on how I set up the rest of my council? Could I for example Lv 1 Commander, Lv 3 Wiz, Lv 2 Rougue?

What about exceeding the number printed on the war council handout. So Lv 1 Commander and then Lv 5 Cleric (guessing I would still max at 4 lore cards)?



Your Council can be set up any way you like. Some scenarios employ creatures which take one level of your council and many scenarios require a certain level of commander, which takes from your council total.

We have always played where level 3 is the maximum level that a council member can achieve. I do not recall if the rules state that as a limit but the chart on the War Council Card does end at level 3 so that is why we have always stopped there. Plus I like to have a level or two of a couple of council members so maxing at level 3 allows me to have a few levels for other members.
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brian
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Wow, lot of criticism for something that is pretty straight forward in my opinion.

Lore masters can only go up to Level 3 max (though you could certainly houserule it if you want). After that, no restrictions. You could have two Level 3's, three Level 2's, five Level 1's and a creature or any other mix that you want.

And you can have any mix of Lore Masters that you want. You don't even have to take a Commander if you don't want one. You will just be limited to 3 command cards.

You only get a Stronghold if you take a Level 3 Commander. You would never get two strongholds as you only have 1 commander. For each level 3 master you have, you take the corresponding landmark. If both player's have the same Level 3 masters, their effect cancels out and no one get the landmark. The excpetion is the Commadners as both sides can have Strong hold.
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Robert Taylor-Smith
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Lore masters can only go up to Level 3 max (though you could certainly houserule it if you want). After that, no restrictions. You could have two Level 3's, three Level 2's, five Level 1's and a creature or any other mix that you want.


It doesn't actually state in the rules level three is the maximum. A player just has to assume from the chart. The lore cards themselves don't imply a level three maximum.

ColtsFan76 wrote:
And you can have any mix of Lore Masters that you want. You don't even have to take a Commander if you don't want one. You will just be limited to 3 command cards.


Scenario/Adventure number 10 states the Commander must be at least level one. Which is what I believe the OP is refering to. None of base game's scenario/adventures allow a level zero commander.
 
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brian
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flapjackmachine wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
Lore masters can only go up to Level 3 max (though you could certainly houserule it if you want). After that, no restrictions. You could have two Level 3's, three Level 2's, five Level 1's and a creature or any other mix that you want.


It doesn't actually state in the rules level three is the maximum. A player just has to assume from the chart. The lore cards themselves don't imply a level three maximum.

That's a pretty weak argument. Let's see, there is a chart that shows you can have a Level 1, 2 or 3 on page 55. On page 56, there is not one, but two charts that show your progression can go from 0 to level 3. Those charts are in the rulebook, therefore the rules tell you to go up to level 3. If you were officially allowed to go to Level 4, there would have been a row in the chart to reflect a Level 4 master.

Do we really need a line in the text to confirm what it already says?

flapjackmachine wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
And you can have any mix of Lore Masters that you want. You don't even have to take a Commander if you don't want one. You will just be limited to 3 command cards.


Scenario/Adventure number 10 states the Commander must be at least level one. Which is what I believe the OP is refering to. None of base game's scenario/adventures allow a level zero commander.

The base game scenarios are meant to be a teaching tool. They add an element or two each time to showcase another feature of the game without dumping it all on you. Scenario 10 is meant to guide you to keep at least a Level 1 Commander so you have at least 4 command cards. Less cards than that for a newbie is just too daunting.

But that restirction is meant for that scenario only. To say it superceeds the rulebook for all scenarios is as ridiculous as stating that Scenario 5 (or whatever number it is) restricts you to having a Level 1 Wizard for all scenarios.

The game is yours. After you play through it once, you can go back and tweak the scenarios however you want. It is ok to take the training wheels off. No one from DOW or FFG will come to your house and scold you.
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Christopher Dodge
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

The base game scenarios are meant to be a teaching tool. They add an element or two each time to showcase another feature of the game without dumping it all on you. Scenario 10 is meant to guide you to keep at least a Level 1 Commander so you have at least 4 command cards. Less cards than that for a newbie is just too daunting.

But that restirction is meant for that scenario only. To say it superceeds the rulebook for all scenarios is as ridiculous as stating that Scenario 5 (or whatever number it is) restricts you to having a Level 1 Wizard for all scenarios.


The minimum level for commanders (or an loremaster) may also reflect the author's intent to mimic the real-life commander's skill in the actual battle. There are some scenarios where the English have a level 2 commander while the French have a level 1 commander. That is because the actual English commander in that battle was considered to be a better commander of his troups.

ColtsFan76 wrote:

The game is yours. After you play through it once, you can go back and tweak the scenarios however you want. It is ok to take the training wheels off. No one from DOW or FFG will come to your house and scold you.


I'll sleep better at night now that I know this!
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brian
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14cross wrote:
The minimum level for commanders (or an loremaster) may also reflect the author's intent to mimic the real-life commander's skill in the actual battle. There are some scenarios where the English have a level 2 commander while the French have a level 1 commander. That is because the actual English commander in that battle was considered to be a better commander of his troups.

Yes, Scenario specific intructions are meant to reflect actual conditions of that battle. The point is instructions in the scenarios do not override the rules for ALL scenarios. So to say the rulebook is unclear (when it is very clear while an exception was made to a specific scenario) is not a true or fair statement.

Granted, there are a few holes in this rulebook. And yes, they could have trimmed the rulebook down tremendously with all the superfluous graphics. However, this is one area where the rules are sufficient and the graphics support the concepts.
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Jon
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Wow that was fast. Thanks everybody. Guess the ruling was what I expected. I was hoping to sneak in my Lv 5 cleric and hope for some luck with HR/FR in the next battle.

Somewhat hoping to avenge my humiliating defeat (6-2) cry in the last battle. I was going to play it cool until I collected both cards then at some pivotal point in the battle smile evily and play both (in subsequent turns of course).

Jon
 
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Todd Rewoldt
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With Hills Rumble/Forest Frenzy/River Rage hitting at 6d a pop, then I would listen to those who lament the overpowered Cleric
 
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Jon
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Update for those interested. We finally had the match and since I couldn't go crazy wiht it I decided against any cleric (not even lv 1) I mean what are the odds of both those cards being in the deck anyway... wouldn't you know it two rounds in and I wind up with both HR and FF. (yeah playable for the extra 3 lore but just not as cool as the fabled 6 dice o' doom).

The gods of irony have smited me.
 
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