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Subject: How much is too much? rss

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Ian Klinck
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So, I've got Dominion. I picked up the promo cards. Intrigue is coming soon, and I'm looking forward to the new possibilities.

People have already started talking about Seaside, which reportedly adds another 26 cards, and should be available in the fall. While I'm sure I'll get it, I really don't think I'll have played out Intrigue by then, so I might not rush out and get it right away.

After that, I've got the impression that they plan to bring out a couple more expansions per year. With all the card interactions, it's going to take longer & longer to explore all the possibilities. When do you think sales will seriously start to tail off?

For reference, here is the number of possible 10-card combinations available with the addition of each set:

Base game (25 cards): Just over 3 million
Add Envoy & Black Market (27 cards): almost 8.5 million
Add Intrigue (52 cards): just under 16 billion
Add Seaside (78 cards): over 1.25 trillion possible combinations!
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Darrin Williams
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You've got a valid point, but I still want more cards.
It's possible that the new expansions will have more powerful cards that make the original cards less attractive so people will "retire" some cards. I know the combo VP/Action cards in Intrigue could make the Dutchy obsolete. Of course, the Duke might have something to say about that.
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Branko K.
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I would refer you to forward that question to the nearest Magic or Warhammer fan.
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B C Z
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M:tG had more combinations possible in its first release than Dominion will after five editions/releases/whatever.

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Tim Stellmach
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There's also over two trillion combinations that you can roll on 12 dice, but that doesn't make them all interesting. The big numbers don't really tell us much about what is really being added to the game.
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Kevin Bourrillion
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I'm a little baffled why there aren't doing just, say, ten new cards at a time, for half the price.
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John Paul Sodusta
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As long as they keep coming out with balanced and quality cards, I will buy them all.
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Jon Anderson
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How can one really complain if we keep getting good quality play options for an enjoyable game? There's no requirement to purchase these if for whatever reason a body doesn't want to and it's more goodies for players that do.
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Jon
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I just hope Dominion doesn't go the way of the 'Killer Bunnies' game.

The first couple of sets were amusing to play, but after a while the later expansions overshadowed the original cards and the game became a drag to store, setup, and eventually sucked all the fun out of playing.
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Ian Klinck
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NojNosredna wrote:
How can one really complain if we keep getting good quality play options for an enjoyable game?


I'm not complaining. I'm just curious at what point people will stop buying, and wondering if it might be better if things were spaced out a little more.

If the games aren't selling (because people don't think they need another expansion, at least not yet), that won't look good to the publisher.
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Douglas Buel
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kevinb9n wrote:
I'm a little baffled why there aren't doing just, say, ten new cards at a time, for half the price.


Well, generally speaking, creating and bringing to sale a product that is "half as much product" does not cost half. It generally costs more than half. This is why detergent costs less per ounce in the family size, bulk stores offer discounts, and so on.
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Dan Cavaliere
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Ian,

This is always something I wonder about with many games and their expansions - how much is too much?

I agree with some of the earlier comments - as long as the expansions are good quality and keep a balance then I'm okay with it.

I also always tell myself I do have the option to stop buying at any time

I have several games where I have not done that however, HeroScape, BattleLore, Magic, etc. blush
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Simon Lundström
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Releasing Seaside this fall is "too much". Despite my rabid complaints about Intrigue and that I have being forces to buy a box and tons of cards that I don't want nor need in order to get the 265 cards I do want and need, I have been toying with the thought of getting intrigue. If seaside is released this autumn, that's another reason to jump ship.

I went to a game store and looked at Cutthroat Caverns. Saw one expansion. Saw another. Saw eexpansion set 3. Lost all interest.

Yeah… sometimes too many expansions just turn you off.
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Branko K.
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Well I gotta agree somewhat.

Due to pre-order jackassery and my summer vacation I probably will not get my hands on Intrigue before mid-August, and it will most likely not get any serious playtime before September. Seaside just seems to be arriving too soon on Intrigue's heels.
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Jon
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JovenShadowcaster wrote:

Yeah, but the difference -- and my problem with Killer Bunnies -- was that every expansion required you to have every expansion before it to work. That's why I stopped at Red (and recommend all others do the same).

Dominion does not -- and likely never will -- require you own ALL previous sets to be able to use any expansion in particular. So you may pick and choose what to get, if any at all, based on which cards you would like to play with. I will never own/use Black Market simply because it adds more time to set-up and tear-down.


Too true. I wish I had stopped at Red.

Re: Black Market - I have seen some rumblings about this card. My group just uses the blue-backed deck to represent the buy pile. When players decide they want to buy cards from the market, the blue one is removed from that deck and then we fish the appropriate card out of the box. Very zippy for us.
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Gordon Adams
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Imho: the price for the expansion is far too high.
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Mat Nowak
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elfrododumbo wrote:

Imho: the price for the expansion is far too high.

The base game has gotten so many plays at my household that I'd gladly pay double in retrospect. If Dominion:Intrigue gets half as much play it'd be worth it for my group IMHO.
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elfrododumbo wrote:

Imho: the price for the expansion is far too high.


In what way?

Intrigue has exactly as much, material-wise, as the original game, and I had expected them to be priced the same.
From your comment, I had assumed it must be selling at significantly more than the original, but the first retailer's website that I have checked (Leisure Games) actually has it at a couple of quid less.

I don't understand your comment, unless you feel the basic game is also far too expensive, which I think some do. But in that case why specifically mention the expansion?


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Alain Renaud
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Even with only the base set, nobody wil ever play out 3 million combinations. But it will still feel nice to play some new cards, even if I only played around 200 combinations (Not even 0.01%).
For my girlfriend, 25 different cards is enough. For me, I'll take a million.
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Myke Madsen
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JovenShadowcaster wrote:
scoobysnack wrote:
...unless you feel the basic game is also far too expensive, which I think some do. But in that case why specifically mention the expansion?



Too expensive? $45 USD for 500 cards? That's mercifully cheap by comparison. Paying $35 for Race For The Galaxy's 100-ish cards? Now THAT is too much. Race shouldn't cost more than $20-25, no matter how good a game it is.

Consider all that, and Dominion and Intrigue are a steal at their current price points.


I wouldn't measure it by price/card, as that doesn't really reflect what the expansion brings to the game. Having said that, I think Intrigue expands Dominion's base game much more than the latest RftG expansion could possibly do.

If there was a RftG expansion that included an entire new deck of cards and also included the role cards, I would expect to pay exactly was much as I paid for the original RftG.
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Dave Daley
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Mateui wrote:
elfrododumbo wrote:

Imho: the price for the expansion is far too high.

The base game has gotten so many plays at my household that I'd gladly pay double in retrospect. If Dominion:Intrigue gets half as much play it'd be worth it for my group IMHO.

I couldn't agree more with this. Dominion is, for my groups too, a game like no other. Everyone loves it. There is no single game that I can take with me, and guarantee to have friends/family who will play. My set has been hand-cleaned twice (dirty, sticky), and is now shielded up with plastic sleeves.

What other game does anyone here have that has 600 plays? If you do have a game with that sort of use, I am guessing that a $45 expansion seems like a cheap way to "refresh" the game.

Hell, I own Ticket to Ride. It's given me loads of fun too, and it cost as much as Dominion AND Intrigue put together. And I paid $21 for about 100 cards to expand TTR!
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Tony C
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I think "too much" is a valid question....to me, MtG is way too much, because when I did play, I always thought my deck was missing something unless I had something from the newest sets. I am a little worried that Dominion could oversaturate the market, but the fact that it's non-CCG works in its favor...every person in a game group could buy a different set and be able to play separately or together, for instance.

Is the real question "too fast"? I understand they want to strike while the iron's hot, taking advantage of the game's popularity, but for a base game to come out and two (admittedly optional and stand-alone) expansions to come out within a year or so, that does seem a little fast.

Or maybe it's just me, I don't have that many plays under my belt, it's harder for me to find people to play--we play different games with my gaming group each time (which isn't bad, I get to try lots of games that are new to me), and my household is not a real big boardgaming household (although I am working on it.)
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Ian Klinck
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JonPrud wrote:

Re: Black Market - I have seen some rumblings about this card. My group just uses the blue-backed deck to represent the buy pile. When players decide they want to buy cards from the market, the blue one is removed from that deck and then we fish the appropriate card out of the box. Very zippy for us.


We do the same. I keep the blue-backed cards together, we pick 10 to play, and whatever's left is the Black Market deck. with the labeled insert, finding the appropriate card when we need it is pretty quick.
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Chris Martin
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TRINDEL wrote:
Even with only the base set, nobody wil ever play out 3 million combinations. But it will still feel nice to play some new cards, even if I only played around 200 combinations (Not even 0.01%).
For my girlfriend, 25 different cards is enough. For me, I'll take a million.

Excel tells me that a million cards is 2.75561E+53 combinations. That should last me a few years.
 
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