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Tales of the Arabian Nights» Forums » General

Subject: ToTANophobia? rss

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The Hound
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Wow, what a hit.

I've been keeping my eye on this game for a while - seems like a grown up taste of the old choose your own adventures (read 'em all as a kid.) It gathered quite a bit of steam lately, jumping to number one of the "Hotness" here on BGG.

Then came the whole homophobe thing...now the game's got someone giving it a ranking of 1 (homophobia makes it broken?), people have stopped posting on the game, and it seems to be dropping like a stone. What a shame. shake

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to the game.

Hope to see some early impressions from those who are lucky enough to grab a copy at Origins!
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Diz Hooper
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Well, I'll be picking up a copy regardless. Here's hoping that this will shoot up the charts and get a bit more positive press in the near future.
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Gordon Adams
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I will be getting a copy as soon as it is released here in GB Homophobic issue or not, the game should be judged on gameplay and not on any underlying nuances that maybe misconstrued by some sensitive people. For those who wish to buy, buy it. It is a free world.
Certaintly looks like a good game (emphasis on game ) and the graphics look good.
Wonder when it will be released in GB....does anyone know ?
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Matt Lee
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I suspect some people are overreacting a perceived slight that goes against their beliefs and feel threatened instead of seeing the line as the rule clarification it is supposed to be.

The quietness might really be the waiting game now for the game's release. I know I am looking forward to it, and don't expect the game to be wildly popular due to the gameplay, but at the same time, I must say that the activity is much higher than I expected, and I hope it bodes well for the people who have worked hard to get the updated game made. If it succeeds greatly, I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

Either way, I wouldn't put too much weight on the ebbs and flows and instead watch once the game is released and people who are willing to give it the chance make their opinions.
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eryn roston
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I just hope it's fun.
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J Mathews
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The Hound wrote:
Then came the whole homophobe thing...now the game's got someone giving it a ranking of 1 (homophobia makes it broken?)

It's all good. It's just Yuki-chan. He probably voted it a 1 because Larry Harris didn't design it, not the homophobe thing. No comment so we don't know for sure.
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Sean
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Actually, this game is still #1 on my list for this summer (year?) regardless of the homophobia nonsense (a thread I largely chose to ignore).

I also think ToTAN might increase interest in this kind of game - that somewhere between RPG and boardgame. With the production quality and Z-Man prominence, ToTAN will get a lot more exposure than even the old edition. I know it was the rarity of such games like this that drew me to it.
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Josko Tosic
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I hope the useless and idiotic discussion about homophobia will not influence the success or failure of this game... I adored the Arabian nights when I was a child, even today I like reading some paragraphs and discuss the theme with my students... but I've been absolutely fuming ever since I came across the thread about homophobia 'cause the fantastic and magnificent world of 1001 nights has been spoilt by someone's ridiculous observations about some alleged elements of homophobia followed by hordes of those who have been so kind to teach us some philosophical, ethical, religious, biological and other aspects of the problem... and all this because of ONE sentence from the rulebook... do those "tolerance-promoting people" really think that creators of this game wanted to exclude, insult or mock someone? Do they believe that while creating the game Eric, Zev and their friends gave some thought to the possible anger of those who would like to see Aladdin courting Ali Baba while Ali Baba's lover Sindbad is sailing across the oceans in the arms of Ma'aruf? I don't think so.
Sorry for this long post... I just want to ask everybody to discuss the game quality, rules, components, so we can decide if it is worth playing with our friends, wives, children... I'm looking forward to play this game one day - with my wife and my daughter according to the present "homophobic" rules placed in the world I used to escape to as a boy... and I won't mind if one day my daughter decides to play it with a female partner...

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Jim Henderson
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johtara wrote:
and all this because of ONE sentence from the rulebook...
Ironically, the one sentence from the new rule book that sparked the argument was essentially the same as the one in the original 1985 rule book. Unfortunately some people asserted that Z-man Games had made an "unmistakable change" to the old rules, causing several pages of controversy. The good news is that the other thread was moved to the Religion, Sex and Politics Forum. I don't see why that other discussion should color my view of the game. I, too, am looking forward to playing it.
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StevenE Smooth Sailing...
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I'm not a gay Persian... But I did play one once in a game of TotAN while staying at a Holiday Inn Express...
(To the obtuse that is meant to be humor)

Same sex attraction has been happening for millennium and will most likely continue thus... Right or wrong it is just a board game.

From what little I know about life the last time I checked board games have not made people gay... (I am pretty sure about this... I didn't feel different after playing Memoir'44 or Wings of War... I did feel a little different after the Age of Conan but my wife says I'm still ok)

My thought is... If you're a puritan leave the risque stuff out when reading the passages... or just don't buy the game.


I also look forward to playing the game... even if it irks those at the table... and I am also happy the other thread was moved as I was getting tired of reading it.
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Alex Baker
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I think I'll wait until the game is released before I panic. The original edition was great as hell, and just suffered from easily-fixed fiddliness. Now that the new edition fixed said fiddliness and added some paragraphs as gravy, I think it'll sell just fine.

Its a totally unique hidden gem of a game that's getting its long overdue reissue.

So stoked.
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Christian Marcussen
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I doubt the homophobe "issue" has any barring on the sales of the game or lack of posts.
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Gordon Adams
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I think a mountain out of a mole hill was built and hope that this does not in any way affect the game's release or the homophobic subject continues once the game is reviewed and played by gamers.
The whole matter has gone for far too long and is becoming a bore now, omho.
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Matt Lernout
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I can't wait to get my grubby paws on this.

Never have played the original, but from all I have read it sounds like it has potential to be a lot of fun.
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Tom McThorn
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The person that rated the game a 1 is a Troll. They gave a rating before the game is published and before playing. Too bad there isn't a way to remove the rating.
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Dave Anderson
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All the previous posts convinced me to preorder the game (My first preorder!). I am pretty excited about the game, but now hope that it is not too risque, although I know that the actual 1001 Arabian Nights were, so I will just have to wait and see.

Regarding the homophobia post, I believe the choice to not be easily offended is a sign of maturity; and life is actually a lot more fun when lived that way!
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Magic Pink
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davethevenerable wrote:


Regarding the homophobia post, I believe the choice to not be easily offended is a sign of maturity; and life is actually a lot more fun when lived that way!


You cannot CHOOSE to not be offended. You can choose to not do anything about it if you are but that's a different story. The people who crow about themselves choosing to not be offended and being oh-so-mature were never really offended in the first place.

As for the game, yeah, treating every relationship as a heterosexual one is TECHNICALLY homophobic. Enough to concern oneself about? I certainly don't think so but then I regularly see a lot worse.
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Sheldon Morris
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Magic Pink wrote:
You cannot CHOOSE to not be offended.

He said "easily offended"; and that can be done by choice.

Personally, I'm looking forward to getting this game. It just looks so well produced and due to the fact it is a remake, the game play has been experienced by so many people so that we have a good idea of its play-quality.
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Joe Geerkin
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This thing has guerilla marketing written all over it. A made up controversy to get people talking about the game, that mysteriously happens when a pile of them are available at Origins and the game is about to be released.

It a good way to get free advertising on the Geek but it’s also the reason I wish for the good old days when people just gave their honest opinions about board games.
 
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Ignatius Jopy
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Magic Pink wrote:
davethevenerable wrote:


Regarding the homophobia post, I believe the choice to not be easily offended is a sign of maturity; and life is actually a lot more fun when lived that way!


You cannot CHOOSE to not be offended. You can choose to not do anything about it if you are but that's a different story. The people who crow about themselves choosing to not be offended and being oh-so-mature were never really offended in the first place.

As for the game, yeah, treating every relationship as a heterosexual one is TECHNICALLY homophobic. Enough to concern oneself about? I certainly don't think so but then I regularly see a lot worse.


I believe issue about "offended/not offended" should be discuss on the other thread and homophobic does not exist since it is not physicological state under medical jurisidiction.

Just for reminder, we talking about a GAME-board that has labeled as "0 and up" as appropriate age of play (at least of able to read). Do you wish that after one play with your younger family member, the next day they said to you:
"Gee, thanks for introducing me this game. Now I know if I let Coach Bummer/Mrs G do [...fill in as you like] i may got extra mark from his/her"

I also have a gay friend, which was "normal" during our junior to high school years (note: boys only school). He chose to be gay after he finished the university, but hey, who care? He already an adult with full responsibility for his actions.
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Jim Henderson
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The age level for the 1985 edition of this game was 12 and up. I'm reasonably sure that the new edition would not have reduced the age recommendation. The "0 and up" entry on the BGG entry for this edition of the game is undoubtedly an error.
 
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Silas Knight
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"Do you wish that after one play with your younger family member, the next day they said to you:
"Gee, thanks for introducing me this game. Now I know if I let Coach Bummer/Mrs G do [...fill in as you like] i may got extra mark from his/her""


Are you saying that exposure to homosexual themes in a game will lead children to seek out pederasts? Talk about a slippery slope.


Personally, I'm more concerned that my children aren't raised to be narrow minded or with an excess of internalized self hatred.

If we assume the average american family has 2 children and that 10% of the population is be homosexual (not factoring bisexuality or alternate labels that might render such a classification meaningless), then we're looking at approximately 20% chance that a given family is raising a child that will one day discover he/she is homosexual*.

With one in five families being affected, I'd say this is a notable figure and worthy of consideration. I don't have any children yet, but when I do and when I pull out this game when they are, let's say, ten (I'm hoping I'll be playing this game in twelve years, it sounds like a reasonable possibility), I will either house rule the courtship option or be sure to explain the historical/geographical context to my young' uns. If this turns out to be the ideal time to have a discussion of heteronormity then super duper, though I would feel remiss in my parenting if I'd waited until a child was ten to discuss hetero/homo/bisexuality and let my children know that however they choose to express their sexuality when they get older it would completely acceptable as long as it was safe and consensual.


*Technically the number is slightly lower, since a family can have multiple homosexual children. I'm not a statistician, so I'm not sure how to calculate the exact figure. But this should be good enough for government work....
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