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Subject: Innsmouth: are the investigators better than the base? rss

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Peter Clinch
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Hi,
I haven't played Innsmouth exp yet, but have heard that it makes the game much harder. Does this mean that the Investigators are correspondingly better? and if so, if you used them in the base set would it be easier?

Just curious what people thought the differences were between the 2 sets

cheers
Pete
 
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Tristan Hall
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There's a similar sort of distribution of rubbish (e.g. IH Silas, AH Dexter) to awesome characters (e.g. IH Patrice, AH Mandy).
So it'll fit nicely into the base set no probs!
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Rauli Kettunen
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Haven't yet played with all of them, but Patrice is right up there with Mandy (arguments for P being the best/most broken have already been voiced ). If you don't take into account Personal Stories, those I have seen aren't above the standard level of AH + DH investigators. Personal Stories boost certain investigators (Silas Marsh for me, even if he did singularily fail every attempt to Pass his PS in the last game...). Then again, AH + DH investigators get theirs too, so going up, some down (Vincent Lee is even worse than before, Wilson Richards isn't all that nice either).
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"Every Board Game I Reach Is Dead"
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Define "better".

Innsmouth Horror has the normal spread of Investigators- some of them over balanced, some of them nice and solid feeling, some of them so useless you dread to randomly draw them...

Certain investigators from Innsmouth seem to have a major advantage over those from earlier sets, but it made little difference to us (we've just got back from a holiday of Arkham sessions and we only won one of the eight games using all the new investigators).

Something we noticed in particular was many of the new investigators were crippled by the new GOOs, either through the GOO abilities or the GOO abilities directly effecting personal stories (such as the lawyer-or any other investigator- who needs a cultist monster trophy going against the GOO that removes every cultist that appears from the game to add to it's strength).

I was glad to see certain investigators from earlier sets get improved ability and playability from the personal stories- Dexter Drake becomes a very reasonable spell caster, although some stories once again brake the game (McGlen the gangster gets +1 Maximum sanity and gains one sanity everytime he kills a monster simply by killing a few at the beginning of the game! Talk about overkill.) goo
 
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Jim Kiefer
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I'd say slightly better than average. I've played all of them at least twice by now. Patrice is probably the best investigator ever, generating 20 or so additional clues per game plus being able to share them with abandon. She might be boring, tho.

Other above average investigators are Hank Samson, Trish the spy and Roland the Fed (especially with his story and against Innsmouth). I really like the Sailor Silas Marsh, too, playing against Innsmouth. He might not be so strong in a normal game, tho. I keep thinking the Rookie cop will do better than he does. I'm happy to see the Astronomer. Removing the monsters of the symbol of your choice has been helpful several times. The only one I'm disappointed with is Zoey.

None of them reach the bottom like Dexter, Vincent and Sister Mary and Dexter and even sister may have been brought up almost to par.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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mageith wrote:
Trish the spy


Trish is seriously duking it out for my personal #1 spot with Sister Mary. Not the most powerful, just very fun to play when you can basically reset her every turn to what you feel you need.

Quote:
I'm happy to see the Astronomer.


I've had Stormin' Norman now twice, can't say I'm over the moon when I draw him. Then again, bad early impressions (hello there Dexter) are very hard to overcome for me. If you get sent to the doghouse, it's hell trying to get out of there.
 
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Bela's dead and Vampira won't talk
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I'd say altogether the investigators are a bit above the base game power curve, along with the Kingsport investigators, though they vary individually of course.

Dam the Man wrote:
mageith wrote:
Trish the spy


Trish is seriously duking it out for my personal #1 spot with Sister Mary. Not the most powerful, just very fun to play when you can basically reset her every turn to what you feel you need.


Totally agreed. Trish is just a blast to play. For me she's up there with Rex, Marie, Mary, Mark, and Carolyn on the fun factor, maybe even in the #1 spot.

I'd add Patrice to that list, too (I love that she rewards exploring) if I didn't feel guilty about drawing her. Speaking of which...

Quote:
Haven't yet played with all of them, but Patrice is right up there with Mandy (arguments for P being the best/most broken have already been voiced ).


Daisy's more breakable, I'd say, but I don't think she's broken, either. I guess Joe's potentially broken if you want to cheap a combat win out of the game, but real Arkham fans know that combat wins come with a big fat "this doesn't really count" asterisk.

But I'll say it outright. I suspected it as soon as I saw her (as I mentioned in my Innsmouth preview), and now that I've played a few games with her I'm confident about it: Patrice is the best investigator in the game.

Maybe Wendy can hang with her ... Maybe.
 
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Fire Blaze
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Patrice is the strongest since she changes the flow of the game, each investigator no longer has to get own clue tokens to seal gates.

Before investigators had to collect 5 clue tokens then go to gate to seal it. With Patrice investigator count Patrice clue tokans add their own and got to gate to seal it. Example: Mandy starts with 4 clue tokans and with Patrice, Mandy jump through gate on turn one, Patrice goes and collects clue tokens. After Mandy sealed the first gate she jumps into the next open gate and seals that one. Mandy also get a lot more rolls one reroll from her self and all the clues from Patrice to add to seal checks.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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le_cygne wrote:
I guess Joe's potentially broken if you want to cheap a combat win out of the game, but real Arkham fans know that combat wins come with a big fat "this doesn't really count" asterisk.



KW himself posted on this issue over on the FFG forums. This seems as good a place as any for this quote:

"Hi guys,

I've noticed a lot of folks talking about clue shotgunning Ancient Ones in Final Battle, and I wanted to see what folks thought of the following rule:

An investigator can spend no more clues each round of combat during the Final Battle than there are elder sign tokens (i.e. sealed gates) on the board.

It rewards progress made before the Ancient One awakens, which I feel is important, and forces investigators to survive longer in order to defeat the Ancient One. I'd like it if folks would try it out as a house rule for now. It may see life as an official rule or variant later on if y'all like it."

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...
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Mark Ogilvie
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ninjadorg wrote:
There's a similar sort of distribution of rubbish (e.g. IH Silas...


Silas is actually one of my favorite new characters; he works very well with the Innsmouth board. With just base AH he's unremarkable, maybe even kind of sub-par, but you have to keep in mind that playing Silas with base AH is effectively removing his special ability, which would make a great deal of the investigators kind of bad.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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BloodySloth wrote:
ninjadorg wrote:
There's a similar sort of distribution of rubbish (e.g. IH Silas...


Silas is actually one of my favorite new characters; he works very well with the Innsmouth board. With just base AH he's unremarkable, maybe even kind of sub-par, but you have to keep in mind that playing Silas with base AH is effectively removing his special ability, which would make a great deal of the investigators kind of bad.


Silas would still get +2 at River Docks and Unvisited Isle (okay, so really just UI ). But for me the best part about Silas is his PS's Pass clause. Free seal, yeah, gimme cool !
 
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Tristan Hall
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I think even with IH, Silas sucks, but you know, different strokes for different folks. I know people who swear by Mary and Drake!
I suppose, you can lead a horse to water . . .

 
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Rauli Kettunen
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ninjadorg wrote:
I think even with IH, Silas sucks, but you know, different strokes for different folks. I know people who swear by Mary and Drake!
I suppose, you can lead a horse to water . . .



I'll swear by Mary till that horse comes back, but Drake should be tied to the horse ! And Vincent should be tied to Dexter.
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I love Silas! I played a totally themed character - we all started with crap, and I was the only one not to find any other weapon. So I was running around with a cutlas, ran out of clues (and was stuck with either no clues or 1 clue for the whole game), but I killed a few monsters, closed a Gate, and then after helping stop some Vortex in Kingsport, went to the Lighthouse and got my White Ship!

After that it was bitchin' I was off to the Other Worlds as soon as I closed a Gate, and as the end of the game came up we stopped C'thulhu from rising partially thanks to me being able to sneak by on the White Ship and get through a Gate. We just weren't getting enough Gates closed with Elder Seals but a lucky draw allowed us to close 2 Gates at the end and win

Ok so that doesn't automatically make Silus cool but I was also able to jump maps left and right to get clues, etc. by traveling (on my dingie as the group called it lol) from one aquatic location to another!
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Bob T
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I have the Base Game and Black Goat, so I only have the basic Investigators. By far I do best with Jenny Barnes, don't ask me why. Mandy Thompson gets a free roll for everyone, so she's good. And I usually do WELL with Dexter Drake. He doesn't suck for me, but he's not on my "A-List"

My "A-List"

Ashcan Pete
Carolyn Fern
Harvey Walters
Jenny Barnes
Michael McGlenn
Gloria Goldberg

any 3 or 4 of them is my "dream-team"

the suckiest of all for me by far is Monterey Jack.
 
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Jim Kiefer
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Thoth Amon wrote:
I have the Base Game and Black Goat, so I only have the basic Investigators. By far I do best with Jenny Barnes, don't ask me why. Mandy Thompson gets a free roll for everyone, so she's good. And I usually do WELL with Dexter Drake. He doesn't suck for me, but he's not on my "A-List"

My "A-List"

Ashcan Pete
Carolyn Fern
Harvey Walters
Jenny Barnes
Michael McGlenn
Gloria Goldberg

any 3 or 4 of them is my "dream-team"

the suckiest of all for me by far is Monterey Jack.

I always have fun with Jenny even if she is so slow. $10 plus a bank loan gets her a very good chance for a motorcyle or map of Arkham. Dexter was never fun in the base game. His personal story form is more fun however.

Carolyn Fern was also one of my favorites. Again, slow, but the best magic user of the base set even though, ironically, she begins with no spells.

Harvey walters looks like magic user, but he's also really a better fighter being able to face down the scariest monsters. (Slow too!)

My daughter Emily played Ashcan Pete only for about 30 games. He's got a few tricks up his sleeve but overall I'm not impressed. She isn't either any more.

Mandy's a star of course, but I usually was happiest with Darrell or Bob. Bob doesn't have much a power but I think he's just well built.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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mageith wrote:
Bob doesn't have much a power but I think he's just well built.


Bob's PS is simple to Pass and can net you greatly in terms of Clues, especially if you have someone to launder money for Bob.
 
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Bob T
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I gotta add Mandy to the good list. She's not spectacular by herself, but her Re-Roll ability is like a Nuclear Gatling-Gun for the whole team.
 
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Avi Noneofyourbusiness :')

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ninjadorg wrote:
There's a similar sort of distribution of rubbish (e.g. IH Silas, AH Dexter) to awesome characters (e.g. IH Patrice, AH Mandy).
So it'll fit nicely into the base set no probs!


I disagree. I think all the Innsmouth characters are fairly strong if played properly (with the possible exception of George Barnaby.

Take Silas for instance, he starts with good money, 2 clues, and decent items. His ability will probably save a few dollars of transportation fees over the game. It will also probably save time.

More importantly, he has great stats in acquatic locations (so as long as you send him to aquatic locations for his clues or encounters, he's likely to have much better results— there are quite a few good encounters at Unvisited Isle and River Docks). And last, but definitely not least, his personal story is excellent. You basically get your first gate, meet up with another investigator, ditch all your items, then you get to auto-seal another gate and start with another investigator with new items and cash (who also carries over that new trophy). What's not to love?
 
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Siu Kee Lee
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Agreed. The investigator that is arguably the weakest in IH is George Barnaby, the Lawyer, but even then his ability could be invaluable at times. His Bail Out ability can be used even in Arkham (though it's meant to shine during Martial Law), and his Knowledge is Power can ensure a success, if not knowing that it's time to quit a check. His PS is also really easy, as long as you're not fighting against Rhan-Tegoth. At least, compared to Hank and Zoey, his PS is really easy.

Tommy has one of the weirdest PS, but he is a pretty decent character, if you care for Deputization.

I can't see any character in IH being badly compared to the base investigators, since their abilities would definitely come into play more than, say, Amanda or Jack's.
 
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Avi Noneofyourbusiness :')

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Well... I actually like Jack's ability (but that's probably because I'm a hardcore Arkham shopper in my strategies).
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Avi_dreader wrote:
Well... I actually like Jack's ability (but that's probably because I'm a hardcore Arkham shopper in my strategies).


Avi, Paris Hilton of AH devil !
 
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Avi Noneofyourbusiness :')

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Dam the Man wrote:
Avi_dreader wrote:
Well... I actually like Jack's ability (but that's probably because I'm a hardcore Arkham shopper in my strategies).


Avi, Paris Hilton of AH devil !


Dam, John McCain of Arkham ;'D
 
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