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Subject: Assassin + Rank upon Rank rss

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Yegor Sadoshenko
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This question arouse from my incorrect interpretation of Slayers (I treated them as Men and was confused what to do with Rank upon Rank). When I realised I was wrong, I felt relieved. Only to find the Assassin.

- Assassin has 3 attacks (of 1 strike each) and prowess of 11.
- Rank upon Rank gives Men +1 strike and +1 prowess.

So, what would Assassin become under Rank upon Rank:

- 3 attacks (of 2 strikes each) and prowess 12 (which is logical as it goes according to the wording);
- or 3 attacks (of 1 strike each) and prowess 12 (which is also logical, if we assume that "(of 1 strike each)" is just a clarification of "attacks" and thus the attacks shouldn't be modified).

 
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Rauli Kettunen
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YeGor wrote:

- 3 attacks (of 2 strikes each) and prowess 12 (which is logical as it goes according to the wording);



This. Note that if you defeat the first attack (essentially 1@13), Rank would be discarded, leaving "just" 2 attacks 1@11.
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Yegor Sadoshenko
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Thanks. Assassin under Rank upon Rank is a deadly mix.

But why do you say "essentially 1@13"? Shouldn't it be 2@12 (as the result of 1@11 and +1/+1)?
 
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Tom O'K
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YeGor wrote:
Shouldn't it be 2@12 (as the result of 1@11 and +1/+1)?


This seems right to me, too.

 
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Rauli Kettunen
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YeGor wrote:
Thanks. Assassin under Rank upon Rank is a deadly mix.

But why do you say "essentially 1@13"? Shouldn't it be 2@12 (as the result of 1@11 and +1/+1)?


Since the Assassin targets 1 char, 2@12 = 1@13. The extra strike becomes -1 to the char's prowess (or +1 to Ass's prowess, whatever you find easier to keep track of).
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Dam the Man wrote:
YeGor wrote:
Thanks. Assassin under Rank upon Rank is a deadly mix.

But why do you say "essentially 1@13"? Shouldn't it be 2@12 (as the result of 1@11 and +1/+1)?


Since the Assassin targets 1 char, 2@12 = 1@13. The extra strike becomes -1 to the char's prowess (or +1 to Ass's prowess, whatever you find easier to keep track of).


I don't follow. The fact that he chooses defending characters doesn't mean that if the number of strikes are increased they all have to go on the same target. He becomes power 12, 3 attacks, 2 strikes each, attacker chooses defending characters.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Assassin:

"Men. Three attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character..." (emphasis added)

All attacks are against 1 char, regardless of the # of strikes he has (realistically 3 is about the max # of strikes Assassin can have).
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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This is why Assassin desperately needed to be rewritten.

From my files for the beta of the unpublished 2nd edition:

"Three attacks. Attacker assigns all strikes. Whoever is assigned the first strike must face all other strikes from this creature.
Strike: Your opponent may tap another character in the defender's company to cancel a strike from this creature. Up to two strikes may be canceled in this way."

Maybe that helps with intent.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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sdiberar wrote:
This is why Assassin desperately needed to be rewritten.

From my files for the beta of the unpublished 2nd edition:

"Three attacks. Attacker assigns all strikes. Whoever is assigned the first strike must face all other strikes from this creature.
Strike: Your opponent may tap another character in the defender's company to cancel a strike from this creature. Up to two strikes may be canceled in this way."

Maybe that helps with intent.


That wording would also require re-wording of the key anti-Assassin card, Forewarned is Forearmed. FiF makes any creature or hazard with more than 1 attack to have only 1 attack, but you can't cancel that attack.

Cancelling attacks vs strikes is a key difference to keep in mind in Meccg, especially when it comes to "can't be canceled" and what it refers to and what not.
 
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Dam the Man wrote:
Assassin:

"Men. Three attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character..." (emphasis added)

All attacks are against 1 char, regardless of the # of strikes he has (realistically 3 is about the max # of strikes Assassin can have).


Wasn't there errata for that?
 
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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For the record, from the same beta files, the text for Forewarned Is Forearmed:

"Engagement: Any site or creature with more than one attack is reduced to one attack of the hazard player's choice. The attack may not be canceled. Discard when such an attack is defeated. May not be duplicated."

Dam the Man wrote:
sdiberar wrote:
This is why Assassin desperately needed to be rewritten.

From my files for the beta of the unpublished 2nd edition:

"Three attacks. Attacker assigns all strikes. Whoever is assigned the first strike must face all other strikes from this creature.
Strike: Your opponent may tap another character in the defender's company to cancel a strike from this creature. Up to two strikes may be canceled in this way."

Maybe that helps with intent.


That wording would also require re-wording of the key anti-Assassin card, Forewarned is Forearmed. FiF makes any creature or hazard with more than 1 attack to have only 1 attack, but you can't cancel that attack.

Cancelling attacks vs strikes is a key difference to keep in mind in Meccg, especially when it comes to "can't be canceled" and what it refers to and what not.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Brunop wrote:
Dam the Man wrote:
Assassin:

"Men. Three attacks (of one strike each) all against the same character..." (emphasis added)

All attacks are against 1 char, regardless of the # of strikes he has (realistically 3 is about the max # of strikes Assassin can have).


Wasn't there errata for that?


CRF has this:

"If an attack from Assassin is given more than one strike, each additional strike becomes an excess strike (-1 prowess modification) against the attacked character. An Assassin can never assign strikes to more than one character. "

http://www.meccg.net/netherlands/meccg/rules/crf/crf-card.ht...

Scott: That FiF text + the beta Assassin would reduce Ass to 1 attack, which could then be canceled, since tapping cancels strikes in the new wording.
 
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Okay I'm sorry Rauli you're right. I think it was just some local tournament with its own rules where Assassin had to assign the same target only for one strike, and the rest could be issued anywhere else.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Brunop wrote:
Okay I'm sorry Rauli you're right. I think it was just some local tournament with its own rules where Assassin had to assign the same target only for one strike, and the rest could be issued anywhere else.


NP. I know Polish and Spanish like to spice things up with their own rules !

Any of you guys posting in this thread (or in this section), who are not on Gccg already, get to it! Go! Git it cool !
 
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Yegor Sadoshenko
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Dam the Man wrote:

Since the Assassin targets 1 char, 2@12 = 1@13. The extra strike becomes -1 to the char's prowess (or +1 to Ass's prowess, whatever you find easier to keep track of).


Nice spot about that excess strike. I have absolutely forgotten about it. So, Rank upon Rank just gives prowess bonus to Assassin. Yet any bonus is a bonus.

Thanks again for clarification.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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YeGor wrote:
Dam the Man wrote:

Since the Assassin targets 1 char, 2@12 = 1@13. The extra strike becomes -1 to the char's prowess (or +1 to Ass's prowess, whatever you find easier to keep track of).


Nice spot about that excess strike. I have absolutely forgotten about it. So, Rank upon Rank just gives prowess bonus to Assassin. Yet any bonus is a bonus.

Thanks again for clarification.


Note the following if you're looking to use the über-combo of Assassin + Rank Upon Rank + Pierced by Many Wounds:

"- Assassin against a character
-> pumped by Rank upon rank it gets two strikes, but assassin says only one character can take strikes from an assassin
-> there are more strikes than defenders, so Pierced by Many Wounds converts that -1 in -4"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All characters in a company facing an attack are considered defending characters, even if not all of them will face a strike. Therefore, the use of Pierced by Many Wounds with an Assassin affected by Rank Upon Rank (or Hoarmurath of Dir) is illegal unless there is only 1 character in the company facing the attack. "

(NetRep Digest #117)

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José San Miguel
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Dam the Man wrote:

Note the following if you're looking to use the über-combo of Assassin + Rank Upon Rank + Pierced by Many Wounds:

"- Assassin against a character
-> pumped by Rank upon rank it gets two strikes, but assassin says only one character can take strikes from an assassin
-> there are more strikes than defenders, so Pierced by Many Wounds converts that -1 in -4"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All characters in a company facing an attack are considered defending characters, even if not all of them will face a strike. Therefore, the use of Pierced by Many Wounds with an Assassin affected by Rank Upon Rank (or Hoarmurath of Dir) is illegal unless there is only 1 character in the company facing the attack. "

(NetRep Digest #117)



Nice remark. I would have done that wrong for sure.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Jose-san wrote:

Nice remark. I would have done that wrong for sure.


Never would've pegged you for a n00b mistake Jose ! Honestly, don't know where I'd come across that particular clarification, probably just saw it while browsing threads or something, but had a strong feeling I'd seen it somewhere. Had to verify from the "Evil One" , who pointed me to the digest.
 
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