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Subject: This game or B-29? rss

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Hilary Hartman
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I've narrowed my choices down to B-17 and B-29 for a venture into solo wargaming. Why should I get this game over its counterpart?

Thanks!
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Wulf Corbett
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I'd say B29 is the better, more polished, more 'modern' looking and reading game, but essentially it all boils down to one thing - do you want to bomb Germany or Japan?

That, and you can probably get B17 quite cheap from eBay, and there are plenty of unofficial and official expansions available for free for B17.
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Drew Heath
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
but essentially it all boils down to one thing - do you want to bomb Germany or Japan?


Gotta disagree with your here, Wulf.

It all boils down to this one thing - do you want to battle enemy fighters & flak (B-17) or mechanical issues and weather (B-29)?
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Mark Buetow
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From what I've read, B-17 is more about the enemy fighters and B-29 is more about the plane itself in terms of fuel management and technical challenges. I've played B-17 for years and it's quite fun, but the session reports and reviews of B-29 persuaded me not to spend the money on it because of the greatly reduced enemy action compared to B-17. FWIW.
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James Megee
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Not too sure about B-17 being the "cheaper" game by too much. On EBay, one Un-punched just went for $66, then, the others were, $26.50, $34.33, $50,50, and $40.05. Those were probably each punched as I didn't read the descriptions on each one. But, if you get B-29 you will get a brand new game. You can get the B-29 for less than $40.There is also an expansion for B-29 called Hell over Korea coming out.

However, I have not played B-29 (I want to get it someday), so I can't really say which is better. I have played B-17. I am happy with my B-17 game. Some guy "was" working on a German variant for it, but it has been silent for almost a year now. It was going to be "YOU" fly for the Germans in an HE 111 and bomb England. I was excited about it, but now I am not sure if it will ever be finished. I thought it was almost done too...

This message wasn't to convince you to buy either one, but just to let you know the EBay used for B-17, VS B-29 new.

Just my $0.02

Jim
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René Christensen
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Go for B-17.
You can even play the converted version of British nightbombers!!!
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Wulf Corbett
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Shad wrote:
It all boils down to this one thing - do you want to battle enemy fighters & flak (B-17) or mechanical issues and weather (B-29)?
Both are just rolling on charts though, whatever the title of the chart. You get a few more choices in allocating defensive fire to incoming fighters, but the two games only differ in the 'polish' of B29 over B17, and the theme of which aircraft you fly, and where it's going.
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Ian Wakeham
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You mention that this is your (first?) venture into solo wargaming. If you're not aware of it already, note that both games have very little decision making involved. They are simulations, so lots of dice rolling and checking results against numerous tables. That's not a criticism from me as I really enjoy going along for the ride.

As an alternative, consider something like my current solo wargame of choice - Field Commander: Alexander - easy to play but with significant decisions to make and a number of scenarios and variant rules to keep it fresh.

However, if you're definite about B-17 or B-29 then also note that an expansion to the latter game is in the works: Hell Over Korea. The missions are shorter and the resistance from the Yaks and MiG-15s is much greater than the Japanese fighters in the base game, with the likelihood of being attacked by waves of fighters. But, of course, that would mean spending more money.

In your position I went for cost over anything else. At that time B-17 was selling for a premium on eBay so I opted for B-29. Now I've snapped up B-17 cheaply on eBay.

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Jim P
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Ian is spot on. If you like writing AARs you will enjoy these games much better.

I have both games and I would have to say B-17 is my preferred game between the two. But I have played about 50 times more of B-17 games than B-29 games. I do like the fighter action in B-17 much better than the Mechanical uncertainty. When B-29 gets into low-level day missions later on in the campaign the fighters will increase. So my oppinion may change as time goes on.

Now if you are looking for a solo aviation game and genre, Great War, doesn't matter try Wings Over France. It has great decision making opportunities and a very good combat module. I think this could be a great choice over the other two. I'm not trying to talk you out of either of the others, but WoF may be a better one to start with. I LOVE B-17, it has got to be one of my all time favorite game. It is truly the game I have played the most in my life.

Two down sides are the cost £25.95 GBP ($42.50 USD) (30.41 EUR) Plus shipping. Second the poor quality of the components. It is a bit of a cheap desktop effort. But with that said, it is a great game play wise.

Good luck in your search,
Jim P cool


added pertinent quality info:
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Wulf Corbett
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jasta6 wrote:
Now if you are looking for a solo aviation game and genre, Great War, doesn't matter try Wings Over France.

Down side is it cost £25.95 GBP ($42.50 USD) (30.41 EUR) Plus shipping.
The real downside is the shoddy, ultra-cheap amateurish components, unless it's radically improved since I bought mine yuk It is a good game though.
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Steve Herron
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This has got me interested in getting B-29. There is a guy at church who was a crew member on a B-29. I will have to ask him what he did. He had a B-29 bumper sticker on his car.
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Jim P
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Wulf Corbett wrote:
jasta6 wrote:
Now if you are looking for a solo aviation game and genre, Great War, doesn't matter try Wings Over France.

Down side is it cost £25.95 GBP ($42.50 USD) (30.41 EUR) Plus shipping.
The real downside is the shoddy, ultra-cheap amateurish components, unless it's radically improved since I bought mine yuk It is a good game though.


Wolf,
I'm sorry, you are right the publication is a bit bad. Most compoants are good but the aircraft counters are poor. But I have to take exception to your "amateurish" shot... This is "Euro-trash" yuk or better yet "Brit-trash" gulp componants. Company that published is; Publisher: Lambourne Games, England, 1991 Not an American Co. Sorry mate!

Jim P cool

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Wulf Corbett
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jasta6 wrote:
But I have to take exception to your "amateurish" shot...
My 'player aid' sheets were three xeroxed A4 sheets taped together by hand.The rest of the game is clearly typed and xeroxed, mostly loose A5 sheets, and not all the copying is too clean. The 'improved' map (which was quite nice indeed) was an A3 sheet of thick paper/thin card, unfolded, and sent in an unstiffened envelope, so it arrived creased and dogeared.

Granted, I had to pay for it, and as such it's a professional product. But I saw more professional production values on fanzines 20 years ago.

But there is a good game in there - just not one for anyone who cares about the quality of their game components.
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Hilary Hartman
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Wow! Thanks for the replies and your comments concerning the two games (three, if you count Wings Over France).

I had actually considered getting the latter, but had read soooo many complaints regarding the component quality of WOF that I am putting it on the backburner, for now (and I do enjoy WWI aerial combat, too!).

I have played two other solitaire games: Ambush and Mosby's Raiders. They were okay, but I just didn't get much out of them and have since traded them away. So, I thought I'd try one of the flying solo simulations.

Of course, the idea that one of the games is OOP has been weighing heavily, too. Still, I have heard a great, great deal about how B-17 is the game to get for solo play.

Hence, my dilemma.
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jasta6 wrote:
Wulf Corbett wrote:
jasta6 wrote:
Now if you are looking for a solo aviation game and genre, Great War, doesn't matter try Wings Over France.

Down side is it cost £25.95 GBP ($42.50 USD) (30.41 EUR) Plus shipping.
The real downside is the shoddy, ultra-cheap amateurish components, unless it's radically improved since I bought mine yuk It is a good game though.


Wolf,
I'm sorry, you are right the publication is a bit bad. Most compoants are good but the aircraft counters are poor. But I have to take exception to your "amateurish" shot... This is "Euro-trash" yuk or better yet "Brit-trash" gulp componants. Company that published is; Publisher: Lambourne Games, England, 1991 Not an American Co. Sorry mate!

Jim P cool



He wrote "amateurish" as in "lacking professional skill or expertise", not Ameritrash.
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Skadar wrote:
He wrote "amateurish" as in "lacking professional skill or expertise", not Ameritrash.
Oh... I never even realised that was his complaint blush
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Another solo effort you should at least consider is Eklund's Luftschiff, which does have flying, though of the Zeppelin variety.
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René Christensen
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I believe there is a Geek-list with Solitare games!
Check it out!
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Ian Wakeham
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Slotracer wrote:
I believe there is a Geek-list with Solitare games!
Check it out!

Try: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/35598 for a start
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Ian Wakeham
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I forgot to mention that a new version of B-17 (reworked and updated) will be released in the not too distant future; if that will sway you one way or another.
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batdog wrote:
I forgot to mention that a new version of B-17 (reworked and updated) will be released in the not too distant future; if that will sway you one way or another.


Source?
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Ian Wakeham
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Let me get back to you on that. ninja
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Brett Pierotte
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Both games are more simulation than game, which means that the "story telling" or "role-playing" is your main source of entertainment. In this respect, after playing both, I would have to give my vote to B-17:QotS. You really do feel like your in the cockpit keeping your fingers crossed that your badly shot up plane will make it just one more zone and that you won't have to write too many letters home to your crewmen's parents. With B-29, it's chiefly about weather, fuel, mechanical malfunction, and navigation with enemy action a distant fourth as far as dangers you face. Again, it all boils down to rolling on charts, but praying that you can make it through one more wave of 190s and 109s is far more compelling story-telling than hoping the plant worker who installed your engines wasn't fighting a bad hang over that day.
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Jim P
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Skadar wrote wrote:
He wrote "amateurish" as in "lacking professional skill or expertise", not Ameritrash.


Thanks Skadar, My speed-reading failed me again. My humble apologies Wulf!!

Wulf Corbett wrote:
My 'player aid' sheets were three Xeroxed ...But there is a good game in there - just not one for anyone who cares about the quality of their game components.


Similar for me too, only thing is I knew what I was buying when I ordered it. So I purchased it for the game mechanics not its glitz. Still hurt writing that check though. If you still have the game and want better counters there is a Yahoo Group that has files of colored counters. Just go here;
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/Wings_Over_France/?yguid...

batdog wrote:
I forgot to mention that a new version of B-17

Where are you hearing this? I would be very interested in a new version.

wrote:
...one more wave of 190s and 109s is far more compelling story-telling

So true, so true....

Jim P cool
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Hey folks, I appreciated this discussion. My copy of B-17 is on the way!

I've heard I can join an online squadron or some such? Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!
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