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Subject: Rule question for original Entdecker rss

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Todd Redden
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I recently translated the original rules set that came with Entdecker (in German only.) On the last page of the Log Book, it seems to be saying that incomplete land tiles that don't link to other land tiles score every turn. That doesn't make sense, and no such rule is mentioned in the Rules of the Game section B. Does anybody know what that ATTENTION: paragraph means on the last page of the Log book?

Also, the pictures on that page both seem to be wrong. In the top picture, either the lower left card or the one immediately above it are placed incorrectly, as water meets land. How can that be? Likewise, in the second picture, card B should not be there as there is no route linking the card to the edge of the board. How did a ship ever get there?

I want to post the complete translation in English but want to make sure my translation is correct and that I understand it before posting. Thanks.

 
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Mik Svellov
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That game was first translated by Chris Mellor in 1996.
Why don't you check with that, to see what your problem is?
http://www.gamecabinet.com/rules/Entdecker.html
 
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Todd Redden
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Great Dane wrote:
That game was first translated by Chris Mellor in 1996.
Why don't you check with that, to see what your problem is?
http://www.gamecabinet.com/rules/Entdecker.html

Thank you, those rules don't dip in to the "Log Book" at all. The play rules from page B only mention briefly the idea of premature scoring in certain cases which the Log Book elaborates on. This happens when running out of cards to play, though it suggests reshuffling the out of play cards once. The Log Book on page 4 makes a bold statement (my translation):

"Attention: The reserve cards are only ever placed at the end of a Discoverer journey, after a player has finished uncovering all his announced cards or chooses to stop early and then perhaps places a unit. Then all isolated islands are scored as if they were complete. i.e. - every isolated area (with land, but without connection to land on adjacent cards) scores as a small island. Several cards with connected land parts score as a bigger island. Discoverer-Chips are never drawn for incomplete islands."

This is the statement I question. Does it mean that every incomplete island scores on every player's turn repeatedly until the island is complete and it gets one final scoring? Islands that could not be completed (for whatever reason) must be scorable, otherwise how would players get their Forts or Settlements back? That doesn't seem to be mentioned in the major rules section, and it seems pretty important.

The same section of LogBook page 4 goes on to describe a final scoring of incomplete islands that happens when the cards run out prematurely, which is more understandable, but the above "Attention" is confusing and needs confirmation.

- Todd
 
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Mik Svellov
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It took me a while to locate this old game: I guess I need to make a filing system soon

You are correct about the two illustrations. Never noticed that, and it doesn't really change the point they are illustrating. Klaus Teuber should be fired from Goldsieber from making such errors - oh wait, that's right - he had already left the publisher by this time after his success with Settlers, and only published the game because he was committed to publish two addition games for the lable....

As for the text, it seems to me like you are mixing two different paragraphs together? The first half of your text belongs to note (achtung) concerning filling up areas during the game. The other half concerns the scoring at the end of the game.
 
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Todd Redden
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Great Dane wrote:
It took me a while to locate this old game: I guess I need to make a filing system soon

You are correct about the two illustrations. Never noticed that, and it doesn't really change the point they are illustrating. Klaus Teuber should be fired from Goldsieber from making such errors - oh wait, that's right - he had already left the publisher by this time after his success with Settlers, and only published the game because he was committed to publish two addition games for the lable....

As for the text, it seems to me like you are mixing two different paragraphs together? The first half of your text belongs to note (achtung) concerning filling up areas during the game. The other half concerns the scoring at the end of the game.

Well, I didn't "mix them up." And, the point the pictures are illustrating IS THE QUESTION. wow Both paragraphs have very similar wording. The first Achtung paragraph is the confusing one. I didn't write it, I'm just trying to translate and understand it correctly, and it does seem to be saying what I wrote - that incomplete islands score as if they were complete after each player ends their journey and places any necessary reserve card(s). That doesn't seem to comply with the Rules of Play section B. Surely, you want to be placing units around on islands and hoping to be the greatest Discoverer of the island WHEN IT COMPLETES. That whole aspect of game play goes away if you score incomplete islands every turn. (It makes complete sense to score incomplete islands once when the game ends, after cards run out, which is what the next paragraph clearly states.)

You seem to be hinting that the Achtung paragraph only applies to situations where islands that cannot be completed as a result of placement of reserve cards get scored then and only once. That would make more sense, but the example pictures don't seem to confirm this idea, nor does the wording of the paragraph. Nor does any of it show how islands ever become non-completable (unconnectable?) as a result of playing reserve cards or turn completion. Does anybody know for sure?

I'm hoping to play a few games of Entdecker this weekend and see if play can clear up some of these questions.

 
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Todd Redden
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I wonder if the printing of the achtung paragraph, like the mistaken picture examples, was just a publisher mistake and was only supposed to state the first part of it, that reserve cards are placed AFTER journey completion. Then, the part about scoring incomplete islands, which repeats again in the next paragraph regarding running out of Discoverer cards early, was not supposed to be part of the "Achtung" but got printed there in error, and really only applies to final scoring.!!! I bet that's the solution. The design of the Discoverer cards, and the rules of play seem to imply that incomplete islands can never be in a state where they can't be completed, and surely aren't supposed to be scored after every player's turn!!! The 4th page of the Log Book is all f****d up!
 
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Mik Svellov
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tmredden wrote:
"Attention: The reserve cards are only ever placed at the end of a Discoverer journey, after a player has finished uncovering all his announced cards or chooses to stop early and then perhaps places a unit. Then all isolated islands are scored as if they were complete. i.e. - every isolated area (with land, but without connection to land on adjacent cards) scores as a small island. Several cards with connected land parts score as a bigger island. Discoverer-Chips are never drawn for incomplete islands."


In my rules the paragraph reads:
Attention: The reserve cards are only ever placed at the end of a Discoverer journey, after a player has finished uncovering all his announced cards or chooses to stop early and then perhaps places a unit. If a gap has been created and the player reveal further Discovery tiles, he may attempt to reveal the fitting tile in order to close the gap and possibly place a unit.

See the difference?
 
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Todd Redden
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It looks to me like the German rules I translated have that misprint. At any rate, I finally played Entdecker Friday (for the first time - a 4 player game with "gamers"), and it played easily with the rules as finally interpreted. The very last statement in the rules comments on Teuber, stating that "he has made true a childhood dream of the discovery of distant lands in a wonderful family game." I didn't realize until playing the game that it is a "family game." Somehow I thought it was more gamery. The rules are very simple, almost impossible to misinterpret, and we played straight through with no consequences. The general concensus was that the game had a Carcassonne feel but with far more random outcomes. All thought they would try it again, but would rather be playing something a little "meatier." It's a pretty looking game, and I'm glad to have it, but I was a little disappointed. I hoped my friends would find it more appealing.
 
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Frederic Moritel
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Hello,
the way I understood the rules for uncompleted island is that if at the end of one player's turn, an island completely enclosed in water but incomplete because missing tiles inside (therefore all land) the player put filler cards (#6) in the missing spaces and the island is scored including the drawing of discovery chips if apliable.
At the end of the game when all cards have been used, uncomplete island (not all enclosed in water) are sored without drawing discovery chip.


Fred
 
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Todd Redden
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Fred -

Yes, that's evident, but I consider those islands to be completed (when only interior holes exist.) The rules I questioned were in the Log Book, specifically about scoring "uncompleted isolated islands" at the end of each player's turn. Since having played the game it strikes me that no incomplete islands are ever fully isolated, because you can always start the ship at a space adjacent to an empty space on the board that connects to that missing space adjacent to the incomplete island. You should (and do) never have to score an incomplete island until the game ends.

- Todd
 
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