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Subject: Blowing steam: the complex-tile canard, manifestly debunked rss

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jim b
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[A disclaimer: this compares Steam and AoS tracks, which are severely limited compared to a game like Railroad Tycoon.]

The canard: Steam has way too many complex track and town tiles!

The truth - the relevant tile manifest -
- hairpin curves - steam 8 (towns flipside), aos 7 (town disks)
- complex crossings - steam 12 (4/4/4, towns flipside); aos 11 (4/4/3, town disks)
- complex coexist - steam 8 (no towns); aos 4 (town disks)
- dedicated town Y-junctions - steam 8, aos 8
- dedicated town spurs - steam 4, aos 3

Some related totals -
- complex track - steam 28, aos 22
- complex crossing/coexist track - steam 20, aos 15
- dedicated town tiles w/ unique track - steam 12, aos 11
- complex towns - steam 32, aos 33 (somewhat artificial, but useful to checksum)
- complex tiles - steam 40, aos 33 (all of the above)

Steam's has a 'complex track' surplus of only 6 tiles (1 hairpin, 1 crossing, 4 coexist), and a 'complex town' deficit of 1 tile (1 more spur and Y-junction, but 3 less 4-exit towns).

In summary, the canard that Steam has way too many complex track and town tiles is completely unfounded.

PS. The simple-track canard is manifestly debunked at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/419019

[edit: disclaimer, link, minor wording]
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Jon
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"only" 7 tiles...40 vs 33 is an increase of more than 20%. That's not exactly negligible.
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Rik Van Horn
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Good grief. You need to post TWO identical threads?
Using the words manifestly, canard and debunked is bad enough in one post title, let alone posting the same thread twice.

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J C Lawrence
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AnakinOU wrote:
"only" 7 tiles...40 vs 33 is an increase of more than 20%. That's not exactly negligible.


In fact it is rather a Big Thing.
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jim b
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clearclaw wrote:
In fact it is rather a Big Thing.

Hi JC, thanks for coming over and joining in; I know you feel strongly about this particular topic.

Given the precise differences enumerated (above), reasonable people may disagree whether it's a big deal, but no matter: many comments cited a much wider difference, so I hoped to provide more clarity on what the differences really are (at least as a starting point).

Some have commented that Steam may have 4X more complex-track pieces, way more 4-exit town tiles, and so on. Well, 6 tiles isn't 4X, and Steam actually has less 4-exit towns...

Please feel free to comment more here.

rokkr wrote:
Good grief. You need to post TWO identical threads?

Um, no, I hope not, and they're different on my screen. This one is about complex-tiles, while the other one is about simple-tiles (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/419019).

[edit: wording to be more specific]
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Rik Van Horn
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Doh, you're right. Issues of this import couldn't possibly be dealt with in one thread alone.shake
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jim b
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Rokkr wrote:
Doh, you're right. Issues of this import couldn't possibly be dealt with in one thread alone.shake

I'll assume from your scolding that you've been reading this forum for a good while, so: I wonder how you can say that with a straight face.

These issues are thrashed in thread after thread throughout this forum: if we organized those [reasonable] concerns & discussion into just 2 threads, imho it would make a real difference in the value & bandwidth of this forum .. even if we got nowhere!

Still, the concerns are different - discussions re: 'Steam has way too many complex tiles' and 'Steam has way too few simple tiles' legitimately head in different directions. If I was confident I could open 1 thread that might develop into heated discussions across both - and have casually interested parties still make sense of it - I would've opened one thread. But, I wasn't. (I think the geek makes it easy for you to ignore them both, if it's not your cup of tea.)

[edit: punctuate, add 'tiles' for clarity, corrected first sentence]
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Jack Neal
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I think he was talking about the other thread with almost the same identical wording.... it would be easy enough to whack that thread and stick with this one.
 
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jim b
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lamplite wrote:
I'm just hanging around to see if Uri Geller shows up and tries to bend a spoon.surprise

Doesn't work - once you run out of a certain track piece, that's it: you can't just put bent spoons down where you needed tight curves. And, 'T-spoons' probably aren't as useful as you'd expect.
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Randall Bart
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jimb wrote:
These issues are thrashed in thread after thread throughout this forum: if we organized those [reasonable] concerns & discussion into just 2 threads, imho it would make a real difference in the value & bandwidth of this forum - even if we got nowhere!

Then go back and start the threads for the simple straight track canard and the simple curved track canard and the town spur canard and the complex town canard and ... well you're the expert--you know what all the canards are.
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Randall Bart
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jimb wrote:
you can't just put bent spoons down where you needed tight curves. And, 'T-spoons' probably are as useful as you'd expect.

For a moment I thought "bent spoon" and "T-spoon" were AoS jargon for different types of complex track.
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jim b
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Barticus88 wrote:
Then go back and start the threads for the simple straight track canard and the simple curved track canard and the town spur canard and the complex town canard and ... well you're the expert--you know what all the canards are.

That seems unhelpful.

Still: in one thread that got diverted to this topic last week, I did ask a local expert to open a single thread on this topic. Nothing happened, so I took some initiative, as reasoned above. (Please, open your own threads however you like!)

The town spur canard and complex town canard should be explored here - what of it?!?

PS. The discussions in this group sometimes seems outright malicious by intent - the footprint is a minefield of disinformation and heat. Obviously, trolling is easiest if one can keep diverting any focused line of discussion. But I'm sure I'm being paranoid, and you're being friendly.

[edit: minor wording, typo]
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jim b
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For those concerned with splitting 2 topics on this subject, I wanted to give a quick update on simple tiles.

Steam plays tighter with simple track on it's own map (5 player), so it's on the ropes against the simple-tile canard -
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3630368#3630368

In our topic here, I think we've identified the essential differences across the complex-tile pools; please, make of them what you will. If anything, Steam is consistently playing tighter than AoS, in terms of track and supply goods.
 
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jim b
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I want to add a relevant link/image into this thread: pastabatman posted a great Steam tile-manifest to the Files section.

I took the liberty of using an image of his .pdf, to inline here -

Steam Tile Manifest (from pastabatman)

Note, this makes the 2-sided tile pool much clearer (vs Steam's back-cover, for example).
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