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Subject: The 8-Province Turn is now possible. rss

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Tanner Griffin
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All right, it'll probably never happen, but here's how it goes. Seriously, you just can't do this unless that's the entire aim of the game.

Cards available--Chapel, Village, Smithy, Bridge

Chapel away until you have just three silvers. Buy a bridge. The next turn, buy another bridge. Then buy a village and a smithy. Use villages with multiple bridges (Throne Rooms are great here, too) to lower the price of everything and get more villages, bridges, and another smithy. Chapel the silvers away. You'll end up having:
1 Chapel (you can't get rid of it...)
9 villages
2 smithies
8 Bridges

Combo time!

Village! Village! Village! Village! Village! Village! Village! Village! Village! Smithy! Smithy! Bridge! Bridge! Bridge! Bridge! Bridge! Bridge! Bridge!

You now have 8 buys, 8 coins, and provinces cost 0.


Now, once you get your set, get to work and actually do this!
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Jon
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Friff14 wrote:

1 Chapel (you can't get rid of it...)
9 villages
2 smithies
8 Bridges


Anyone that allows another player 8 bridges and 9 villages deserves what is coming to them.

I am curious how feasible it is to do this with a less one-sided deck.
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Werner Bär
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That's 21 buys. Provinces will be gone long before you're ready.
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Christopher Dearlove
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You can do it in the basic game with enough extra actions and cards plus 8 provinces remodels and 8 gold.

But it's an equally theoretical and never going to happen case.

Edit: Duh!
 
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David desJardins
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Yeah, there are plenty of ways to gain 8 (or 12) Provinces in a single turn in just the base game.
 
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Myke Madsen
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Putting aside for a moment that this is a poor strategy, what is the fastest way to buy 8-provinces in a turn?
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Matthew M
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By yourself? Or with assumed perfect draws + collusion? The quickest using the latter would probably involve 4 players with 3 buying Gold constantly and the 4th being our Province buyer using Thief to gather all the Gold up with.

-MMM
 
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David desJardins
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HappyProle wrote:
Putting aside for a moment that this is a poor strategy, what is the fastest way to buy 8-provinces in a turn?


Buy or gain? The fastest way to gain 8 Provinces in a turn is probably some variant of 4x Throne Room, 4x Remodel, 8x Gold (plus the cards that let you draw those into your hand).
 
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Mat Nowak
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Logically, I think some if not most Provinces will have already been bought out by your opponents by the time you've constructed that perfect deck to accomplish an 8-Province buy turn, making this endeavor quite useless. Now, maybe a 4 Province turn would be more feasible.
 
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David desJardins
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Mateui wrote:
Logically, I think some if not most Provinces will have already been bought out by your opponents by the time you've constructed that perfect deck to accomplish an 8-Province buy turn


Logically, you would have bought some Provinces yourself long before now.

It's just a theoretical exercise.
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Matt Sargent
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HappyProle wrote:
Putting aside for a moment that this is a poor strategy, what is the fastest way to buy 8-provinces in a turn?


Five throne rooms, three bridges, one adventurer (drawing four gold), one council room, and two silver. That's only sixteen cards, seems plausible to me you could do it before turn 17. Plus you'd get a free Duchy along with them. Just in case.
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Yaron Racah
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noon wrote:
HappyProle wrote:
Putting aside for a moment that this is a poor strategy, what is the fastest way to buy 8-provinces in a turn?


Five throne rooms, three bridges, one adventurer (drawing four gold), one council room, and two silver. That's only sixteen cards, seems plausible to me you could do it before turn 17. Plus you'd get a free Duchy along with them. Just in case.


Why not go all the way to 4 Bridges, and drop the Adventurer and Gold?

5 TR's, 4 Bridges and 1 Smithy will do the trick. Of course, both versions also need a Chapel to get rid of the filler.

 
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Yaron Racah
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Okay, I just tried this, and it actually works. I mean, you probably can't get all 8 Provinces (because some will have already been taken), but you can take every remaining Province, plus enough Duchies to win.

I played 3 solitaire games with Throne Room, Lab, Chapel and (proxied) Bridge. Of course, TR+Lab+Chapel make for some fast decks, Bridge or no, but I thought I'd start with the most favourable setup.

My approach was to start with Silver/Bridge, then get Chapel+Lab or Chapel+TR the first time I drew my Bridge, and some proportion of Labs/TRs/Bridges later (I happened to start 3/4 in all 3 games, I guess I'd open Chapel/Lab on a 2/5).

Every time I drew TR+Bridge, I was able to buy two more Labs/TRs/Bridges (or three, if I had 4 treasure-coins as well). Whenever I got TR+TR+Bridge+Bridge (Lab helped), I got 5 new cards. 4x(TR+Bridge) is needed for grabbing all remaining Provinces (plus as many Duchies as possible - you have 9 buys).

Results:

Game 1: 4x(TR+Bridge) on turn 13. I doubt many decks can deplete the Province pile quickly enough to compete with that. Even 2 remaining Provinces (and 7 Duchies) will probably be enough to win.

Game 2: same result.

Game 3: 3x(TR+Bridge) + 2 Coppers on turn 10(!). That's enough for 4 Provinces. However, I got 7 utility cards (Lab/TR/Bridge) instead, and got 6x(TR+Bridge) on turn 12 (buying all remaining Provinces, and enough Duchies to bring the total to 13 buys).

This is definitely a fun and viable strategy, kudos to Tanner for suggesting it. I wonder if it can be played under less restrictive conditions (I used 4 specific cards out of the 50). Bridge and Throne Room seem to be absolutely necessary, but perhaps replacements can be found for Chapel and Lab?
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Jeff Forbes

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Chapel isn't the only way to trash the coppers and estates, but would be the quickest. the Steward has nice potential, though mandatory trashing of two could be a problem, a deck with this much drawing power should be able to drudge up enough stuff that you can get away with junking a useful card...

Try something like this, perhaps?

Chapel
Bridge
Festival
Library
Throne Room
Ironworks
Minion
Village/Mining Village


For the last couple, perhaps consider Conspirator, Pawn, or you could squeeze in garden/scout/baron, look for a combo with lots of buys, bridge, coppersmith, and drawing cards/gaining actions, card drawing from any of the powerful drawing cards is good, and in something like this setup, you're getting piles of actions and enough flexibility to optimize what you've got left. I really like the pawn for the bridge/buy situation, as a cheap card, as it can replace itself if you're trying to draw out your deck, it can add a buy if need be, or, at worst, replace itself, or give you a modest boost with a coin/buy - and with several bridges and throne rooms, they would cost nothing at all.

The festival -> library advantages over village + smithy are several - the money, the buy, and the choice of cards from the library. Library is better than smithy if it's the only action you play (draw 3, but can reject actions), and is much better than smithy if you've got more actions remaining, in this deck, getting the extra coin for the better cards is downright trivial.

If you're looking to push a theoretical setup with tons of power, library + festival is pretty slick, though laboratory is more consistent, you could literally eliminate all treasure cards with a deck like this, and take massive advantage of chaining these actions together.


This might also be interesting:

Coppersmith
Gardens
Ironworks
Bridge
Council Room
Festival
Pawn
Library
Throne Room

Explosive draw power with throne room + council room, flexibility with pawn, iron works, so many extra buys that you won't know what to do with, but with all the free coppers, and extra buys, you'll quickly stuff your hand with whatever you desire.


I'd be intrigued to play a setup like this with unlimited piles, for a set duration of turns - it would truly be multiplayer solitaire, but would make an interesting engine building game.
 
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Michael Cheung
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Octavian wrote:
By yourself? Or with assumed perfect draws + collusion? The quickest using the latter would probably involve 4 players with 3 buying Gold constantly and the 4th being our Province buyer using Thief to gather all the Gold up with.

-MMM


If include expansion, you can have 5 players buying Gold and the 6th using Thief.
 
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Myke Madsen
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HappyProle wrote:
Putting aside for a moment that this is a poor strategy, what is the fastest way to buy 8-provinces in a turn?



yaron wrote:
This is definitely a fun and viable strategy, kudos to Tanner for suggesting it.


I guess I spoke too soon. This does seem like it could be a viable path.

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Andrew Mitchell
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In a real game I managed a 7 province buy... the opponent already had a province. Minion helped me slow the opponent as it mini-malitiaed the opponent each turn.

The setup you listed above is almost identical to a random setup we hit tonight..

chapel
bridge
mining village
smithy
minion
festival
market
library
nobles
adventurer

It looks like the random draw was pretty close to ideal for this!
Usually card cycling decks are slower than just chapel+silver+gold+province... but this one is really fast (particularly with minion slowing the opponent).

The actual play went pretty close to
turn) purchases
1) bridge
2) silver
3) mining village + chapel (using bridge)
4) minion
5) - (chapel 4 cards, buy nothing)
6) minion + mining village (using bridge)
7) bridge + mining village (and chapel some stuff
8 to 10) go crazy, cycling through entire deck each hand. make 3 purchases, then 4 then 5... get 2 bridge, get more mining village, another minion, a couple of nobles, a couple of festivals. Oh, and chapel away every non-action including your silver!
turn 11 or maybe 12) you can now buy 8 provinces if you want (killing a couple of mining villages) however my opponent already had 1 province ... however I chose NOT to buy the rest of the provinces. My opponent could not buy more than one province per turn (no +buys). So instead I just bought lots of nobles and markets (similar to cantrip, but with extra coin, treasure, buys, and the nobles can sometimes help when you need either actions or cards). Then the next turn I bought the rest of the provinces and a stack of Duchy.

I replayed the game a few times and got the same result each time.
 
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David desJardins
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armitch wrote:
I replayed the game a few times and got the same result each time.


How could that be? Why didn't your opponent buy some bridges after he saw how they worked, and that you were crushing him every time?
 
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Andrew Mitchell
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DaviddesJ wrote:
armitch wrote:
I replayed the game a few times and got the same result each time.


How could that be? Why didn't your opponent buy some bridges after he saw how they worked, and that you were crushing him every time?


By "replay" I mean replay-with-same-tactics/stratagy rather than against an actively learning opponent. The original game was against a real opponent... the replays were me replaying the strategies to see if card draw luck made a difference. The result was that it is consistently fast. (The automated replay-opponent managed either 1 or 2 provinces in the other games)

Interestingly while usually an opponent with > 50% of the provinces is considered to have won, that isn't the case with this deck. Even if the opponent had managed 6 provinces [which I've never seen] and you only had 3 nobles (as the VP in your deck so far) at the start of your next turn you can come back with 2 provinces + 7 Duchy to win.
 
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Myke Madsen
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armitch wrote:
... however I chose NOT to buy the rest of the provinces.


Are you saying 7 Provinces wouldn't have won you the game at that point? Or did you just decide to run up the score?
 
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