Jimmer Sivertsen
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If I have Contact Specialist + the 6-dev Rebel Alliance in play, is the cost to play a "Rebel world as non-military" -3 or -2?

Phrased another way, is Contact Specialist a discount, or are you playing the planet through a specific ability (and that's the only way you get the -1)?

Thanks!
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Tom Lehmann
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Re: Settle discounts
-1 or -2, depending on which pay for military power you invoke.

You can't invoke both of them for a given world, since after invoking one, the world is no longer treated as a military world for settling.

You can't separate the discounts as this would turn each of these powers into two powers, a pay for military power (like the one on the Rebel Cantina) and a discount when paying for military power (like the one on the Rebel Pact). Each of these is one power.

So only one can apply.
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Serge Levert
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Re: Settle discounts
Maybe it's just early in the morning, but this seems quite subtle. I've played the game 250 times, read the base game and TGS rulebooks 2-3x, and yet still never would have imagined the powers don't stack.
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Jimmer Sivertsen
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Re: Settle discounts
That's fair. I refused to consider -1 as a viable option when -2 is open. Well, perhaps in the next expansion, there are space terrorists that could sabotage the -2, forcing you to use the -1 instead.

Thanks for the answer!
 
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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Re: Settle discounts
entranced wrote:
Maybe it's just early in the morning, but this seems quite subtle.


You are correct; it is quite subtle.

Jimmer wrote:
That's fair. I refused to consider -1 as a viable option when -2 is open. Well, perhaps in the next expansion, there are space terrorists that could sabotage the -2, forcing you to use the -1 instead.


One of the contest card concepts that we are testing can create a potential situation where a player would actually prefer to use the -1 instead of the -2, but it is quite unlikely.
 
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Guy Srinivasan
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Re: Settle discounts
Don't think of powers as static modifiers. They're powers like all the other... powers. Apply each of them, one at a time, in any order you choose.
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Serge Levert
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Re: Settle discounts
GreedyAlgorithm wrote:
Don't think of powers as static modifiers. They're powers like all the other... powers. Apply each of them, one at a time, in any order you choose.


Is there actually a terminology difference though? Something like Replicant Robot's "modifier" is called a power, and something like Contact Specialist has both a "modifier" (-1 military) and an "ability" (settle military as civilian etc), but both are called powers. Different terminology would probly help.

Edit: nm, i see what you're saying now.
 
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Brendon Russell
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Re: Settle discounts
onigame wrote:

One of the contest card concepts that we are testing can create a potential situation where a player would actually prefer to use the -1 instead of the -2, but it is quite unlikely.


Speculation for speculation's sake...

A power similar to the Poor House from San Juan could result in this type of situation. Let's say the power was: if you have no cards left in your hand after settling, you draw a card.

Then let's say you had a situation where using the -2 discount would leave you with 1 card in hand after settling a world, while the -1 discount would leave you with none, triggering the "Poor House" power. Either way you'd end up with 1 card in hand. If the cards you wanted to spend were all useless to you, you might prefer to invoke the -1 discount, hoping that the replacement card you drew would be more useful than any you had before.
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JW
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Re: Settle discounts
Does putting down a Contact Specialist when you have Rebel Cantina as a start world make Rebel Cantina's settle ability obsolete then? Since Rebel Pact works (at least I think it does) with Contact Specialist as well, there has been a couple of times when I started with Rebel Cantina and was wondering whether an early Contact Specialist is worth it or not.
 
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Brendon Russell
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Re: Settle discounts
crushedguava wrote:
Does putting down a Contact Specialist when you have Rebel Cantina as a start world make Rebel Cantina's settle ability obsolete then? Since Rebel Pact works (at least I think it does) with Contact Specialist as well, there has been a couple of times when I started with Rebel Cantina and was wondering whether an early Contact Specialist is worth it or not.


I belive so yes, the Contact Specialist's (settle military as non-military) power makes Rebel Cantina's one redundant.

Is it worth it or not? Depends on other factors, e.g. how will the -1 military from Contact Specialist affect you? How many times do you expect to use the discount, to get back the value on the card(s) you lost from your hand to play Contact Specialist? Do you have Pan-Galactic League, or think it's worth taking a chance trying to find it later?
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Jacob Ossar
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Re: Settle discounts
One other factor: do you have Improved Logistics, so that you might conceivably want to use two pay for military powers in one extended settle phase?
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Re: Settle discounts
You need only one pay for military power to settle two military worlds by payment in one Settle phase by using Improved Logistics.

Pay for military powers, once invoked, confer the ability, for the expenditure of a Settle action for each such world settled, to treat specified military worlds as non-military worlds to be placed by payment for the rest of that Settle phase.

Note that takeover powers, which are similarly worded in terms of settle actions, behave differently as explicitly noted on page 4 of the RvI rules.

So, yes, if you have the Rebel Cantina in your tableau, then once you place a Contact Specialist, there is no reason to invoke the Rebel Cantina's pay for military power. Whether the additional -1 discount from using the Contact Specialist is worth placing it will, of course, depend on your situation.

 
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Re: Settle discounts
crushedguava wrote:
Does putting down a Contact Specialist when you have Rebel Cantina as a start world make Rebel Cantina's settle ability obsolete then? Since Rebel Pact works (at least I think it does) with Contact Specialist as well, there has been a couple of times when I started with Rebel Cantina and was wondering whether an early Contact Specialist is worth it or not.
Pretty much.


If for some reason you had to choose between RC and CS, RC's main advantage is that you get to leech off the produce phase. One card per Rebel world, so you'll get at least one card for RC itself. Otherwise, it also has the pro of NOT having the -1 military penalty. CS has the -1 discount towards settling a military world as a non-military world. The -1 military world can help you avoid being vulnerable towards Imp Cloaking Technology, but does hurt your chances towards settling regular military worlds for free (vs having to pay alot of cards), yellow worlds (at all, since RC and CS can never be used to pay for yellow military worlds), and for the Greatest Military most goal as well.

RC costs 2 and is worth 0pts whereas CS is 1/1. However, RC's cost is negated if you start off with it.


Once you have both, you can pretty much get the best of both worlds (Produce bonus + -1 discount towards settling military worlds), but still must put up with the -1 military discount.
 
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Scott Russell
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Re: Settle discounts
So can one use Rebel Alliance to turn a military world into a 2 discounted normal world, then discard Imperial Stealth Tech to make it military with 2 discount, then use Contact Specialist to make it black numbered again with another 1 discount to settle a military world with a 5 discount?

Heck let's throw in Rebel Pact on the first or third step to make it a 7 discount?
 
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Todd McCorkle
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Re: Settle discounts
NO.

Imperial stealth [whatever] explicitly states that it does not work with "pay for military as if it was non-military" settle powers.
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Re: Settle discounts
qzhdad wrote:
So can one use Rebel Alliance to turn a military world into a 2 discounted normal world, then discard Imperial Stealth Tech to make it military with 2 discount, then use Contact Specialist to make it black numbered again with another 1 discount to settle a military world with a 5 discount?

Heck let's throw in Rebel Pact on the first or third step to make it a 7 discount?
Negative.

First off, Rebel Alliance only works on REBEL military worlds. It is stated that it allows you to pay for a REBEL military world as if it were a non-military world. This doesn't transform the REBEL military world into a non-military world

2) Imperium Cloaking Technology (ICT) works in such a way that it turns military worlds into NON-military worlds. Rebel Alliance only works on REBEL MILITARY worlds.

3) Like with #1 above, Contact Specialist does not turn military worlds into non-military worlds before you settle them. The distinction that you pay for it as if it were a non-military world is still there.
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Serge Levert
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Re: Settle discounts
ackmondual wrote:
Imperium Cloaking Technology (ICT) works in such a way that it turns military worlds into NON-military worlds.

ICT turns NON-military worlds into military worlds. :P
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Re: Settle discounts
entranced wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Imperium Cloaking Technology (ICT) works in such a way that it turns military worlds into NON-military worlds.

ICT turns NON-military worlds into military worlds.
yep, so much for RftG-theory late at night Gotta improvise when the straightforward answer is taken
 
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Scott Russell
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Re: Settle discounts
Thanks, all. I didn't have the card (ICT) handy when I typed the question. modest
 
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