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Subject: What politics in the modern era is really all about. rss

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RSP is being diluted into something pathetic. Marc (slowcorner) complained about it the other day and he is correct. The fucking grade school Chit Chat mentality is like a noxious weed... spreading it's inanity and nerdiness throughout the site. Which makes us all look bad.

So... we fight fire with fire I say! Use CC mentality to drive them out and back into their little warrens of politeness and simpleton-like behavior.

With that in mind I offer a YouTube video that explains everything anyone need ever know about politics. And that includes our current Messiah Prez.. who has, no doubt, stuck Mister Happy in places it didn't belong himself... he just hasn't been caught yet,

Give him time... give him time...

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David desJardins
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DWTripp wrote:
And that includes our current Messiah Prez.. who has, no doubt, stuck Mister Happy in places it didn't belong himself... he just hasn't been caught yet


I see that Tripp hasn't given up all hope. But it seems that he's getting pretty desperate.
 
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You forgot to say how much you hate President Obama.
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49xjohn wrote:

You forgot to say how much you hate President Obama.


Don't hate him. Always have figured him for an empty suit lusting for power and willing to compromise his integrity or that of anyone attached to him or even that of his constituency, just to be seen as a savior. So far he hasn't proven me wrong.

The sex thing? Bah. It'd surprise me if he had any integrity there at all. Doesn't matter though in the larger picture.

I dig Crowell's Grammy winner though.
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DWTripp wrote:

Don't hate him. Always have figured him for an empty suit lusting for power and willing to compromise his integrity or that of anyone attached to him or even that of his constituency, just to be seen as a savior. So far he hasn't proven me wrong.


The ability people have to see what they want to see never ceases to amaze me.

-MMM
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HE shall guide us towards the PROMISED land. TheU.S.A.

Love it or leave it baby!



All the whiny conservatives and little lost neo-cons weeping in their Milwaukee's Best pleases us to no end. Go find another country to invade for your second third coming (JEB be its name). In the meantime your high priestess Palin (peace be upon her) shall lead you from the woods, to a, err, deeper part of the woods, where your manifestos shall be written and your cries of woe and lament will mix with wolves that the fucking liberals helped save.

Sí, se puede
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David desJardins
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Octavian wrote:
The ability people have to see what they want to see never ceases to amaze me.


It's not surprising to me when they have strong motivations. The fact that bankers really think they need to be free from regulation in order to spur the economy, for example, is explicable when you realize how much less they would get paid if they couldn't convince others of that. But how it is that people can be so highly motivated to convince themselves of something so diametrically opposed to their own self-interest (as I recall, Tripp was vehemently opposing the Obama proposals to extend and improve his unemployment benefits), that I find equally mystifying.
 
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And I still oppose the extension of UI, as well as the $25 extra per week. It's hard to make a case that such measures have created job growth. That's not an Obamacentric stance on my part though. I'd oppose it no matter who was President because it makes no sense to me.

As for "appearing" to act against one's own self interest, that's another subject and certainly not as simple as you make it sound. As an example, it appears to be wrong to double-down two 10's in 21 when the dealer is showing a 7 and you have good odds to win that hand. But if you're a halfway competent card counter and have been paying attention it might be in your self interest to match your bet and play the odds that currently favor your position.

To continue with the allegory... Obama is doubling down on a deck that is not rich in 10's, the dealer is showing a Queen and he's using borrowed money from Chinese gangsters who are starting to grumble about his strategy.

With that in mind I'll take the extra $25 and buy my son some shorts and a new hat.
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David desJardins
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DWTripp wrote:
And I still oppose the extension of UI, as well as the $25 extra per week. It's hard to make a case that such measures have created job growth.


Hard? The argument is so simple that it seems impossible to question. You give people more money, they spend it to buy stuff, so that creates jobs to fulfill the increased demand. You might not think it's a good way to create jobs, or worth the cost down the road of the money that the government borrowed to fund it, but it seems unarguable that it does create jobs.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
And I still oppose the extension of UI, as well as the $25 extra per week. It's hard to make a case that such measures have created job growth.


Hard? The argument is so simple that it seems impossible to question. You give people more money, they spend it to buy stuff, so that creates jobs to fulfill the increased demand. You might not think it's a good way to create jobs, or worth the cost down the road of the money that the government borrowed to fund it, but it seems unarguable that it does create jobs.


From the LA Times a week ago...

Quote:
Reporting from Los Angeles and Sacramento -- California's unemployment rate in May hit 11.5% -- its highest level in more than three decades


From the BLS... graph of national unemployment



Maybe if he'd given us $50 a week?
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DarthXaos wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
49xjohn wrote:

You forgot to say how much you hate President Obama.


Don't hate him. Always have figured him for an empty suit lusting for power and willing to compromise his integrity or that of anyone attached to him or even that of his constituency, just to be seen as a savior. So far he hasn't proven me wrong.


Isn't that EVERY politician?

No.

Fuck, dude: sometimes you make sense, and then other times you haul out these tired, inane, hackneyed platitudes. It really cuts into your rep. What next, a joke about "the French?"

I've worked with politicians and activists over half my life, and in my experience they are some of the hardest working, most dedicated people around. They're the ones getting off their asses and working for the betterment of our world/society/neighbourhoods. If I'm looking for integrity, I'll take a politician (left or right) over a voter 98 times out of 100. 99 times if the voter's a business owner.
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DWTripp wrote:
Reporting from Los Angeles and Sacramento -- California's unemployment rate in May hit 11.5% -- its highest level in more than three decades


OK, now you're just playing semantics. Isn't that what you accuse me of? The effect of the stimulus is to create some jobs that wouldn't otherwise have existed. That can be true even if total employment is going down for other reasons.
 
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If this were Wargaming, I would point out that the soldier in Chapel's picture is not firing a rocket launcher, but a recoilless projector. As this is RSP, I fully agree witht the picture.
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DarthXaos wrote:
The only people with integrity who run for public office are fringe wacko candidates who get like 1% of the votes


How many members of Congress have you met, to base this on? I'm just curious.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Reporting from Los Angeles and Sacramento -- California's unemployment rate in May hit 11.5% -- its highest level in more than three decades


OK, now you're just playing semantics. Isn't that what you accuse me of? The effect of the stimulus is to create some jobs that wouldn't otherwise have existed. That can be true even if total employment is going down for other reasons.


Well then... problem solved. Even if unemployment hits 20% Obama is still the clear winner.

And I am tipping you a quarter of a GG for setting me on the right track regarding facts... from now on I'll simply ignore any that conflict with my ideology. Thanks!
 
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DWTripp wrote:
Well then... problem solved. Even if unemployment hits 20% Obama is still the clear winner.


You used to at least read what I wrote before writing your snarky replies. What I wrote is that it's open to question as to whether the stimulus is a good or bad policy. I didn't even take a position myself. Why do you twist it like this?

If all you want to do now is snipe at people, it will be a shame.
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Don't blame Tripp, David....

When you post things, and all you get in response is ridicule, its hard to resist the urge to just snipe back.

Personally, I blame the heat. At least here, (Texas), its been 92 degrees by 11AM every day. *UGH*

I've noticed that everyone's tempers are a bit THIN recently...

Darilian
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DWTripp wrote:

Well then... problem solved. Even if unemployment hits 20% Obama is still the clear winner.

I am afraid unemployment rate will eventually hit that terrible number regardless of who is at the helm
 
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Darilian wrote:
Don't blame Tripp, David....

When you post things, and all you get in response is ridicule, its hard to resist the urge to just snipe back.

Personally, I blame the heat. At least here, (Texas), its been 92 degrees by 11AM every day. *UGH*

I've noticed that everyone's tempers are a bit THIN recently...

Darilian


Well, in my view it's a silly concept. So David is being silly. He conjectures that the extension of UI and the additional $100 per month might possibly create more jobs... at a potentially higher cost than benefit. Duh. That's a thin defense for the massive money dump that the crazed powers in DC have foisted upon us.

Even if some new jobs are created, we're still shedding jobs at a breakneck pace. So it's like Obama is the Little Dutch Boy with his finger in the dike proclaiming that he's stopping "some" water while the rest of the country is being drowned by dikes breaking all around him.

If you look at the BLS graphs (mine disappeared for some reason) the gradual up and down curves vanished over the last two years. The years that we reaped the mortgage idiocy from the late 90's and early 2000's and then got kneecapped by an insane Democratic congress and an ineffectual lame duck President.

Now all we have is Obama mugging the TV cameras two or three times every single day... pointing his finger everywhere else and being put out when anyone has the temerity to suggest that perhaps things aren't really everyone else's fault.

David is correct that the insanity of Friday's cap/trade crime isn't a foregone conclusion... but it's par for the course to do an end run around America itself and get this travesty through Congress while the media obediently gives us 24/7 of a dead Michael Jackson.

People here in RSP can cite "popularity" polls all they want but issue-based polls show clearly that Obama's actual deeds are not popular. He's like the good buddy who is everyone's favorite friend... genial, handsome and always brings a 6-pack when he visits but is sneaking around diddling your 6 year old while you aren't looking.

I just wish he'd chosen to be an actor instead of a politician.. he'd fit right in with that crowd.
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DWTripp wrote:
He conjectures that the extension of UI and the additional $100 per month might possibly create more jobs... at a potentially higher cost than benefit. Duh. That's a thin defense for the massive money dump that the crazed powers in DC have foisted upon us.


No. I think extending and increasing unemployment benefits certainly creates jobs, not "might". And I didn't offer that as a defense of the "massive money dump". I just think that we can't even discuss the "massive money dump" if people can't agree on basic facts, like that unemployed people will spend more money if they get it.

Lawyers frequently argue in the alternative. "My client didn't do it, or if it he did he was acting in self-defense, or if not then he was insane at the time, or if not then he was abused as a child." This sort of argument, where if someone knocks down your claim then you have another one right behind it, usually collects the scorn that it deserves.

Quote:
it's par for the course to do an end run around America itself and get this travesty through Congress while the media obediently gives us 24/7 of a dead Michael Jackson.


The vote was scheduled before he died. Now are you going to claim that Nancy Pelosi sent a hit squad to give Michael Jackson some prescription drugs in order to distract attention from the House floor? That makes about as much sense as the rest of this.

I can see why you like Glenn Beck, this really feels just like his show. Throw out every crazy idea you can come up with, hope that by sheer repetition the stuff you invent can drown out the reality. And you accuse Pelosi of trying to distract people??
 
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Now you're doing your "semantic" thing again David. We're losing jobs. Period. Unemployment rates are climbing... well beyond what Obama and Team swore we'd top out at. Now they're saying it'll get even worse.

And yet you want to dissect words and argue that jobs were created by $25 a week and an additional 6-12 weeks of benefit? How? And "they spend it" is a generality... so what? I spend it at Albertson's here locally for food and guess what? Alberston's has reduced their staff. So if there's, I dunno, 200 people like me, all spending additional $100 a month at Albertson's then how come they are laying people off instead of hiring them to take care of that extra income?

The fact is that you have no way of knowing that "it" creates "jobs". That's because any administration will count things the way they need to count them in order to deflect criticism of their actions. I have actually heard the President state clearly that his money dump "saved" jobs. Oh really? Which ones? Certainly not the hundreds of thousands that were lost since he took office.

So, just for the sake of clarity... a simplified example... if you start out with 100 million jobs and then a few months later, after spending a couple hundred billion bucks, you end up with only 90 million jobs, then you didn't create jobs. What Obama wants to get a pat on the back for is that his strategy didn't end up with us losing even more jobs. So he figures without the money dump we'd have been down to 85 million jobs and we only went to 90 million... therefore... he created 5 million jobs!

I don't blame Barack Obama for the current recession because he didn't create it. Nor do I blame him for TARP I, even though he was for it. What I do "blame" him for is using the erosion of our economy and the fear of millions of Americans as a pry bar to consolidate and establish government powers and controls that violate our laws.

I'm uncertain what Glenn Beck has to do with anything but you may know better than me because other than the episode I watched last week for my thread I'm not conversant with his patter. You obviously watch his show, so you would know.



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DWTripp wrote:
Unemployment rates are climbing... well beyond what Obama and Team swore we'd top out at.


That's simply not true. Obama didn't make any promises about how bad things would get. Do you have a link?

Quote:
The fact is that you have no way of knowing that "it" creates "jobs".


Common sense is really sufficient. People spending money creates jobs. Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere warms the planet. Rain falling from the sky makes you wet. If a large rock falls on your head from a substantial height, it will hurt. These are things one can know from first principles.

Quote:
So, just for the sake of clarity... a simplified example... if you start out with 100 million jobs and then a few months later, after spending a couple hundred billion bucks, you end up with only 90 million jobs, then you didn't create jobs.


That's bullshit. It's perfectly possible to create some jobs and yet other factors cause more jobs to be lost. If we lock up some killers, and the murder rate the next year is higher, does that mean that locking up the killers didn't do any good? That just doesn't make any sense. You can't measure the benefit from any one act by looking at everything that happens in the whole world. That would be like trying to determine whether your home air conditioning is working by measuring the average temperature of the planet.

Quote:
You obviously watch his show, so you would know.


I saw at least 30 seconds of Glenn Beck once. That was enough to completely get it. From your account, he hasn't changed.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
Unemployment rates are climbing... well beyond what Obama and Team swore we'd top out at.


That's simply not true. Obama didn't make any promises about how bad things would get. Do you have a link?


David, you're now going to argue over the word 'swore", aren't you? How about we used predicted instead? Just so long as we don't use a word that means something something other than what Obama swore would be the top out rate "if the Stimulus was passed". As I recall it was in the 8 to 8.5% area. Google is your friend if you want to dispute anything other than whether I used a word you agree with.

Quote:
That's bullshit. It's perfectly possible to create some jobs and yet other factors cause more jobs to be lost.


Whatever. Here's something pretty cool from USNews & World report today:

Quote:
"Fewer jobs were lost last month than expected?" The idea that fewer people are losing jobs than might otherwise have because of the stimulus is, well, silly—and in no way based in any kind of rational or serious analysis of the labor market or any other economic discipline I ever studied. You don't have to take my word for it—on March 4, 2009, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, a Montana Democrat, told Obama Treasury Secretary Tim "Turbo Tax" Geithner the same thing.

"You have created a situation where you cannot be wrong. If the economy loses two million jobs over the next few years, you can say, 'Yes, but it would have lost 5.5 million jobs.' If we create a million jobs, you can say, 'Well, it would have lost 2.5 million jobs," Baucus told Geithner, adding, "You've given yourself complete leverage where you cannot be wrong because you can take any scenario and make yourself look correct."


Yeah, it's an Op Ed piece but I thought the comments from the Senate Finance Chair were humorous.

Just saw a poll on the news today when I sat down to have a snack. 1/3 of Americans believe Obama's strategy is making things worse, 1/3 believe it's not helping at all and 1/3 believe it's making things better.

My only question at all about the poll is: why didn't the pollsters ask what things are now better?






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David desJardins
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DWTripp wrote:
David, you're now going to argue over the word 'swore", aren't you? How about we used predicted instead? Just so long as we don't use a word that means something something other than what Obama swore would be the top out rate "if the Stimulus was passed". As I recall it was in the 8 to 8.5% area.


As I recall, you're lying through your teeth. Obama never "promised" or "swore" or "predicted" that the stimulus would result in any particular result. No one can predict exactly what the economy will do months or years in advance, that's what he has said and is saying and will continue to say.

I guess I should give up and just start filtering your postings. It used to be that you would have opinions that I disagreed with, but at least base them on facts. If you've given up retaining any connection to the truth, that's really too bad.
 
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