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Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » General

Subject: Some ballance concerns rss

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Michal Bronkowski
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I have played my first time RtL this week, for some time it was preaty fun and ballanced. The herose were a little behind the overloard and decided to visit a legendary area. We were on a copper level of the campaign, heroes had a team of two figthers one mage and one rouge. They already had every item they wanted from the copper deck and a couple of extra black power dices. (I think 2 herose had 1 extra and 2 heros had 2 extra dices). Overloard had already bought 3 avatars (they are realy cheap) and upgraded eldrih monsters to silver. Now here is the problem the first level of dungon contained 3 leaders, hell hound, dragon and a demon (I think it was number 34 but I ma be wrong). They managed to kill the hell hound and a dragon with not to much trouble, but the demon is an eldrih monster so we used silver stats for it. The problem is the heros were practicly unable to harm the deamon, it has fear 3 and 6 armor so on avarge thro they did about 0-3 damage and the demon had 39 health, on top of that he has a very powerful attack that eventualy killed even the heavy armored characters.
Since they where unable to kill the demon it rised the question should the named monsters stats be based on the campaign level (more like lieutenants) or on the purchased upgrades? It seams unfair that the herose can find a dungeon compleatly unbeatable because OL purchased a monster upgrade.
also there is a rule in the FAQ that when overlord is forced to reshuffle his deck for the secound time, heroes are ejected from the dungeon and they can never revisit, does this count for legendary areas because as I seen the firs one is preaty huge and I think it can be realy difficult to end it before secound reshuffle.
 
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David Tolin
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The heroes only get the boot if the OL cycles his deck twice on the same dungeon level. That should help.

As for the balance concerns, it sounds like your heroes just got unlucky. Demons are one of the toughest monsters to beat, in my experience, due to the Fear skill and high health. Make sure you don't use the Soar power indoors, though--that one caught us the first time our heroes faced a dragon in a dungeon, which kind of screwed things up.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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mbronkowski wrote:
I have played my first time RtL this week, for some time it was preaty fun and ballanced. The herose were a little behind the overloard and decided to visit a legendary area. We were on a copper level of the campaign, heroes had a team of two figthers one mage and one rouge. They already had every item they wanted from the copper deck and a couple of extra black power dices. (I think 2 herose had 1 extra and 2 heros had 2 extra dices). Overloard had already bought 3 avatars (they are realy cheap) and upgraded eldrih monsters to silver. Now here is the problem the first level of dungon contained 3 leaders, hell hound, dragon and a demon (I think it was number 34 but I ma be wrong). They managed to kill the hell hound and a dragon with not to much trouble, but the demon is an eldrih monster so we used silver stats for it. The problem is the heros were practicly unable to harm the deamon, it has fear 3 and 6 armor so on avarge thro they did about 0-3 damage and the demon had 39 health, on top of that he has a very powerful attack that eventualy killed even the heavy armored characters.
Since they where unable to kill the demon it rised the question should the named monsters stats be based on the campaign level (more like lieutenants) or on the purchased upgrades? It seams unfair that the herose can find a dungeon compleatly unbeatable because OL purchased a monster upgrade.


1. You get the good and the bad. Most of the Bosses you fight in Bronze will only be Bronze, a few will be silver. Later, some of the bosses you fight in Silver, and maybe even gold will still be bronze.

2. Demons are real tough, and really rare (that might be the only level with a Demon boss?).
To get through Armour 6 and Fear 3, with bronze treasures only, you need Power Pots (and/or fatigue spent on dice upgrades), possibly even aimed power pots. A power pot shot from a Tank with 4 melee dice and a Dragontooth Hammer will do 7-9 damage per attack on that Demon, not including any damage bonuses from skills or items. It will still be slow going, and painful, but it is achievable.

3. That is the toughest level to beat IMO. At least one other level can be as tough under certain circumstances, but not as consistantly tough. It sucks that you drew it in a special dungeon, but them's the breaks. Similar to getting a 'Lost' encounter when desparately trying to get a secret master training before the campaign level switches, or when trying to intercept a Lt before a city is razed.

Basically, shit happens. Sorry man, but the chances are small. OL's gotta have some breaks as well.

Quote:
also there is a rule in the FAQ that when overlord is forced to reshuffle his deck for the secound time, heroes are ejected from the dungeon and they can never revisit, does this count for legendary areas because as I seen the firs one is preaty huge and I think it can be realy difficult to end it before secound reshuffle.


That rule is operable 'per level'. Even on a legendary area where the OL has got Evil Genius in play you should still manage to complete the final level within 12-16 turns minimum (assuming the first cycle was almost immediately within the level, and depending on how many expansions you are playing with). If teh Ol is close to cycling on the 3rd level, you might find delaying the ascent to the final level for a turn or two is worth while, but even then, I think that you must simply be playing too slowly.
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Michael Kefauver
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I would even temper the "Two shuffle eject" rule with common sense. If the first suffle is right at the start of the level, I wouldn't count it. The rule's there to stop heroes from dragging their feet to play it uber-safe, or for overlords to somehow stop the heroes from fleeing and thereby racking up cycle conquest, right? If the heroes aren't stalling, and the OL isn't blocking, I'd say ignore the rule unless things get crazy.
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Michal Bronkowski
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Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.
Anyway I have another question, the heroes are carying a quest item (first scroll of light) what will happen with the item if they will flee the dungeon... it can't be simply left behind because it's a legendary area where my LTs cannot enter.
 
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Chris J Davis
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mbronkowski wrote:
Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.


This is not correct. This is only for lieutenant encounters.

Quote:
Anyway I have another question, the heroes are carying a quest item (first scroll of light) what will happen with the item if they will flee the dungeon... it can't be simply left behind because it's a legendary area where my LTs cannot enter.


They keep the scroll. Again, they only drop it if defeated in a LT encounter.
 
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Michal Bronkowski
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bleached_lizard wrote:
mbronkowski wrote:
Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.


This is not correct. This is only for lieutenant encounters.



Perhaps I didn't made myself clear, this particluar dungon level has 3 leaders/sections and special rules on the dungon card states that once the leader is killed all monsters from the current section die and a door to the next section opens. BTW I'm not sure what should happen with the spawneed monsters here but I assume only start monsters from a given section die.
 
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David Tolin
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mbronkowski wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
mbronkowski wrote:
Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.


This is not correct. This is only for lieutenant encounters.



Perhaps I didn't made myself clear, this particluar dungon level has 3 leaders/sections and special rules on the dungon card states that once the leader is killed all monsters from the current section die and a door to the next section opens. BTW I'm not sure what should happen with the spawneed monsters here but I assume only start monsters from a given section die.


He's right. The dungeon card states that all monsters in that leader's section die when the leader dies. As for spawned monsters, I think they're included--the card doesn't make any distinctions, so I don't see why they wouldn't be.
 
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Chris J Davis
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mbronkowski wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
mbronkowski wrote:
Thanks, for your answers. We will replay the dungon anyway since we didn't played it correctly. It was fortified and legendary areas cannot be fortified, right? Also we forgot about a rule that all monsters in a given section die when you kill a leader in this dungeon.


This is not correct. This is only for lieutenant encounters.



Perhaps I didn't made myself clear, this particluar dungon level has 3 leaders/sections and special rules on the dungon card states that once the leader is killed all monsters from the current section die and a door to the next section opens. BTW I'm not sure what should happen with the spawneed monsters here but I assume only start monsters from a given section die.


Of course! Seems I forgot that rule too.
 
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Michal Bronkowski
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DavidT wrote:

He's right. The dungeon card states that all monsters in that leader's section die when the leader dies. As for spawned monsters, I think they're included--the card doesn't make any distinctions, so I don't see why they wouldn't be.

Yes but as you said the card states that all monster in that leader's section die, so if heroes kill the demon who is in section 3 and the monsters from that section traveled to section 2 does that mean they don't get killed?
 
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Tim Stellmach
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mbronkowski wrote:
Yes but as you said the card states that all monster in that leader's section die, so if heroes kill the demon who is in section 3 and the monsters from that section traveled to section 2 does that mean they don't get killed?

That's what it says, so that's what it means until they errata it.

On the flip side, a monster that was originally placed or was spawned in a different section can die by being in the same one as a dying leader.

I have my doubts whether that was the intent, but then in a game as adversarial as this I hate to open any unnecessary debates. Anything that's merely strange as opposed to unplayable, stands.
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Michal Bronkowski
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timstellmach wrote:
I have my doubts whether that was the intent, but then in a game as adversarial as this I hate to open any unnecessary debates.


that is not realy an option for me, my friends like to discuss everything, and unnessesery/pointless debates are thier specialty
 
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David Tolin
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mbronkowski wrote:
DavidT wrote:

He's right. The dungeon card states that all monsters in that leader's section die when the leader dies. As for spawned monsters, I think they're included--the card doesn't make any distinctions, so I don't see why they wouldn't be.

Yes but as you said the card states that all monster in that leader's section die, so if heroes kill the demon who is in section 3 and the monsters from that section traveled to section 2 does that mean they don't get killed?


That's how we handled it. When in doubt, I always read the card literally. If it says all monsters in that section die, then all monsters in that section die. To interpret it any other way is to play the "What did the designer really intend?" game, which is impossible to win.
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