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Subject: HIS164 - Last-second Hapsburg leapfrog over the Ottoman to win! rss

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Greg Forster
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"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning" - Dr. Reiner Knizia
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HIS164

Ottoman: Jeff Heidman
Hapsburg: Simon Haldon
England: Jeromey Martin
France: Jon Karlsson
Papacy: Philip Thomas
Protestant: Greg Forster



Turn 1

Diplomacy

England allies with the Habsburgs, and the boat in Seville is lent to Calais.

Deployment

Ottoman deploys to Nezh, Hapsburg to Besancon, England to Berwick. France does not deploy. Papacy sends a regular to Ravenna.

Religious Conflict

The Theses take Magdeburg and Brandenburg, miss in Erfurt, get Leipzig, then miss in Nuremburg. Protestants win the Diet 2-1 on six dice to six, and flip Nuremburg. First impulse the Protestant translates 1CP and publishes with Bucer, missing in Mainz but taking Augsburg. He translates a 1CP card, then plays his home card, translating another 1CP with Luther. Then he publishes treatises and takes Worms, misses in Mainz and Erfurt, and takes Regensburg.

Eastern Theater

Ottoman besieges Belgrade first impulse, takes it the second impulse – with two losses.

Western Theater

Charles teleports to Besancon first impulse and besieges Metz. England builds troops in Berwick first impulse, then DOWs Scotland and besieges Edinburgh; France does not intervene. Hapsburg raises Landsknechts in the stack besieging Metz. England besieges Edinburgh twice and takes it with no casualties. France plays his home card for a VP. Hapsburg easily takes Metz, moves to Geneva and controls it, then besieges Lyons. He takes it the next impulse, then controls Grenoble and Basel.

Southern Theater

First impulse the Papacy uses Leipzig Debate for CPs to build in Ravenna, move to Modena and control it. Hapsburg uses Foreign Recruits to build a regular and two mercs in Tunis. Papacy then plays Trace Itallienne for a fortress in Modena. Then he plays Andrea Doria to activate Genoa.

Special

France builds a chateau; Papacy puts 4CP into St. Peter’s.

New World

Cartier discovers the Mississippi River, Orellana takes the Pacific Strait but dies attempting circumnavigation, Willoughby just dies. France plays Search for Cibola on the Hapsburg conquistador. Hapsburg sends a colony.

Score

Ottoman: 8
Hapsburg: 11
England: 11
France: 12
Papacy: 19
Protestant: 2



Turn 2

Diplomacy

Hapsburg allies with England, gives Metz to France in return for two card draws, allies with the Papacy and gives him a merc in exchange for a fleet loan. France makes peace with the Papacy. France sues the Hapsburg for peace, recovering Lyons and Grenoble for a total of 3 war winner VP to the Hapsburg.

Deployment

Ottoman deploys to Belgrade, Hapsburg to Genoa (he had announced to Cartagena but switched to Genoa after France destroyed his ship in Marseille to pay for his peace suit). England deploys one merc to Bristol for winter reinforcement purposes. France deploys a merc to the empty Metz. Papacy deploys to Modena.

Religious Conflict

The Papacy, denied Florence (see below), opens with Leipzig Debate. Eck beats Tyndale 4-2, flipping Worms and Nuremburg. Protestant then uses his home card to fish A Mighty Fortress out of the discard and play it, with Bucer’s bonus, flipping Nuremburg, missing in Erfurt and Worms, then flipping all three of the eastern electorates. Tetzel beats Tyndale in a debate 2-1, flipping Regensburg. Protestant completes the German New Testament, taking Worms, Regensburg, and Erfurt (finally), missing Kassel, and taking Salzburg and Lubeck. He had planned to publish a treatise with Carlstadt with his remaining CPs, but the loss in Kassel made northern Germany hard to reach, so he translated those CPs with Melanchthon instead. Papacy starts a third debate; Contarini and Tyndale tie, then Cajetan and Tyndale tie. Protestant publishes with Carlstadt, but once again blows it in Kassel, so he switches directions and picks up easy spaces in Innsbruck and Stettin. At this point the Schmalkaldic League forms, the Hapsburg begins his assault (see below), and the Protestant decides to focus on religion. Protestant plays Fuggers for the event. Papacy starts yet another debate; Tyndale beats Campeggio 0-1 but Campeggio makes his roll to ignore it with his bonus ability - and then the Protestant points out he couldn’t flip spaces in England anyway (no access) and wouldn’t be allowed to flip one elsewhere. Protestant removes unrest in Kassel and publishes a treatise, taking Kassel and Munster. The next impulse he puts 4CP into German translation, and the one after that he builds mercs in Worms and Magdeburg and completes the Bible. He takes Brunswick, Bremen, Hamburg, Basel, Strasburg and Linz. He then plays Frederick the Wise for the event, converting the only two remaining German-speaking Catholic spaces - all the way down in Vienna and Graz - and picking up the Wartburg.

Western Theater

England and France just build troops and send stuff to the New World.

Eastern Theater

The Ottoman, intimidated by the Hapsburg’s 11-card hand (from card draws and the New World) stays home. After the League forms, the Hapsburg marches a large stack from Vienna to Linz. Protestant decides it would be a waste of effort to build mercs. Charles and company control Salzburg and besiege Augsburg, taking it the next impulse. He then teleports Charles to Antwerp and besieges Koln. Both his assaults there whiff. He then plays his last card - Diplomatic Overture for the event to draw two cards. But he had not noticed that the Protestant had picked up the Wartburg (see above), and the Protestant cancels the play.

Southern Theater

First impulse Hapsburg besieges Florence, preventing the Papacy from besieging it (quoth Jeff: "I cannot say I've ever seen a Hapsburg player so...confident that he is willing to stick it to the Papacy on Turn 2"). Ottoman besieges the Knights at Rhodes. Hapsburg assaults Florence with Siege Mining and takes it. Ottoman takes Rhodes. Hapsburg plays Shipbuilding for two fleets at Barcelona.

Special

England asks for a divorce; Papacy puts 5CP into St. Peter’s.

New World

Verrazzano discovers the Amazon, Chancellor rolls a 10 (before his +1) but decides to take the St. Lawrence rather than try to circumnavigate, Leon also rolls a 10 (also before his +1) and settles for the Great Lakes. English conquistador dies. Hapsburg, England and France all send colonies.

Score

Ottoman: 10
Hapsburg: 16
England: 12
France: 18
Papacy: 14
Protestant: 19




Turn 3

Diplomacy

Hapsburg allies with England and loans him a fleet, and gives him Antwerp in exchange for a card draw and two mercs. He also allies with France and gives him Florence for two card draws. Finally, he gets a divorce for two card draws to the Papacy; he gets healthy Edward. France offers alliance to the Papacy but is rebuffed; he allies with the Protestant and receives a card draw from him (owed from the previous turn). Papacy DOWs France.

Deployment

Ottoman deploys to Belgrade, Hapsburg to Augsburg, England to Antwerp, France to Innsbruck, Papacy to Modena.

Religious Conflict

Hapsburg’s second impulse is Defender of the Faith, on which the Papacy picks up Graz, misses Vienna and picks up Linz. Protestant uses his home card midway through the turn to pick up Printing Press. Papacy starts a debate in England; Aleander and Tyndale tie, then Contarini beats Bullinger 2-1 to flip Bremen. In the Leipzig Debate Eck beats Tyndale 2-1 to flip Hamburg.

Eastern Theater

Hapsburg plays Trace Italienne for the event in Pressburg, where the unaligned Hungarians get a fortress and a regular.

Western Theater

England and France spend the turn building troops and sending to the New World. First impulse Hapsburg moves to Worms, controls it, besieges Mainz. Protestant builds mercs in Trier. Hapsburg takes Mainz and besieges Koln. Protestant builds a regular in Trier. Hapsburg takes Koln. Hapsburg controls Nuremburg.

Southern Theater

First impulse Papacy besieges the empty Florence. France then plays Mercenaries Demand Pay on the Papacy, who loses three mercs. He reinforces his Florence siege with the two Genoan regulars and assaults, taking the city. Next impulse he uses Foreign Recruits to build two Papal regulars in Genoa. Ottoman uses Landsknechts to remove two Hapsburg mercs from Tunis.

Special

France builds a chateau; Papacy puts 2CP into St. Peter’s.

New World

Narvaez whiffs but survives, much to the Hapsburg’s chagrin. Pizarro and the English conquistador also whiff. Hapsburg and England send colonies.

Score

Ottoman: 12
Hapsburg: 16
England: 19
France: 19
Papacy: 18
Protestant: 14



Turn 4

Diplomacy

Hapsburg allies with France and the Papacy. England does the same. England requests loan of French fleets but is rebuffed. France offers the Papacy two mercs and alliance for Modena and Florence, but is rebuffed; France allies with the Protestant.

Deployment

Ottoman deploys to Belgrade, Hapsburg to Mainz, England to Plymouth. France offers Protestant to deploy to Trier for a card draw the next turn; Protestant counter-offers a card draw for him to attack the Papacy; Papacy offers France a card draw next turn not to do so; France accepts and renews his initial offer to the Protestant; Protestant says he’ll give it if France will attack the Hapsburg next turn, otherwise not; France declines. France deploys reinforcements to Marseille, Papacy to Ravenna.

Religious Conflict

Papacy opens with Indulgence Vendor for the event; Protestant loses Printing Press. He then picks it up out of the discard with his home card. Papacy then plays Servetus; Protestant loses Knights of St. John. Protestant plays Printing Press for the event, flipping Cranmer and taking Norwich, Lincoln and Portsmouth. Papacy excommunicates Cranmer; Aleander loses to Coverdale 1-2, and Protestant flips Shrewsbury and (because of Aleander’s special text) Bristol. Publishing a treatise he flips Plymouth but loses in Wales. In the Leipzig Debate, Eck beats Coverdale 1-0 and flips Shrewsbury. Protestant puts 2CP into French translation, then completes it the next turn, flipping Farel. He misses Grenoble, takes Besancon, misses Metz and Dijon, takes Lyons, and misses Orleans. England publishes a treatise and Protestant flips Latimer; Wales and Shrewsbury flip. Papacy starts another debate; Tetzel ties Latimer, then Bullinger beats Cajetan 1-3, disgracing him and flipping Edinburgh and Stirling since England has a chance of winning if he picks up New World points. (Earlier in the turn Protestant was reforming England to fulfill an earlier promise.) He then plays Calvin’s Institutes for the event, flipping Cop; he picks up Metz, Dijon, Orleans, and Paris but misses St. Dizier.

Eastern Theater

Ottoman moves to Szegedin and controls it.

Western Theater

First impulse Hapsburg besieges Trier and controls Regensburg. Next turn he plays Treachery! and rolls 4-0, taking the city ("even before the traitor can open the gates!").

Southern Theater

Ottoman plays City State Rebels on Tunis, but scores no hits.

Special

Barbary Pirates having finally come out late in the previous turn, the Ottoman starts the turn with piracy on the North African Coast for 1VP. Then he pirates the Papacy in the Adriatic for 1VP. He then consolidates his ships at the Barbary Coast.

Papacy puts 2CP into St. Peter’s in addition to the 5CP he got from Indulgence Vendor.

New World

England cancelled Hapsburg exploration with Fountain of Youth, removing Magellan from the game. Cordova conquers the Incas, English conquistador dies. France sends a colony.

Score

Ottoman: 14
Hapsburg: 19
England: 23
France: 19
Papacy: 15
Protestant: 18



Turn 5

Diplomacy

Hapsburg allies with the French and loans him a large fleet; he allies with the Papacy and receives two mercs from him; he receives Wittenberg and Brandenburg from the Protestant (who has given up on a VP win and is trying to shoot the moon for 50 spaces) in exchange for two card draws. England offers alliance to the French but is rebuffed; he allies with the Protestant. France receives a card draw (owed from the previous turn) from the Papacy; also allies with the Protestant and receives his last merc (who will otherwise die with no electorates remaining in Protestant control). Hapsburg and France DOW England.

Deployment

Ottoman deploys to Belgrade, Hapsburg to Amsterdam, England to Bristol, France to Boulogne. Papacy does not deploy.

Religious Conflict

Papacy burns books with Tetzel, taking Metz but losing in Paris. Protestant publishes a treatise, flipping Calvin. He misses in Metz and St. Dizier but takes Grenoble. Papacy burns books again and takes Trier and Koln. Attempting to forestall the loss of north-central Germany, Protestant publishes a treatise but misses in both Hamburg and Bremen. England publishes a treatise and the Protestant flips Cranmer; he takes York and Carlisle. Papacy burns again and misses in Munster but takes Mainz. Then he burns yet again with Caraffa, taking Paris and Vienna but missing Orleans. Protestant puts 1CP into French translation. Papacy, burning again, takes Munster, Kassel, Brunswick and Nuremburg. Protestant publishes with Carlstadt, loses in Nuremburg (for unrest), flips Brunswick and Hamburg; then he puts 3CP into French translation. In the Leipzig Debate, Campeggio burns Carlstadt 3-1, flipping Brunswick and Hamburg. Protestant puts another 1CP into French translation. Burning once more, the Papacy takes Dijon and Orleans, misses in Lyons, takes Besancon.

Western Theater

Alongside his opening impulse play, Ottoman plays Halley’s Comet as a response to force England to discard a card; he loses the Huguenots. On his first impulse, Hapsburg besieges Antwerp. England launches his huge fleet and attacks the Hapsburg ship parked at Bremen, sinking it with no losses. France launches his even more huge fleet and attacks the English fleet, but they evade to Antwerp. He attacks them there and sinks three of the five English ships, losing one of his own. Francis then besieges Calais. Then he attacks again with his fleets and sinks the two remaining English ships, losing another one. Alva reinforces the Hapsburg stack in Antwerp, then it assaults and takes the city 4-2. France assaults Calais and rolls a 2-3; the next impulse he takes it. England plays Unpaid Mercenaries to wipe out three French mercs in Metz; then he plays City State Rebels and the city goes independent.

Special

First impulse the Ottoman pirates the French in the Gulf of Lyon, for 1VP. He moves his ships to the Tyrrhenian and France plays Julia Gonzaga for him (as part of a deal - which he upheld in spite of the opening-impulse piracy). Hapsburg then pirates for 1VP plus the Gonzaga bonus. Ottoman then pirates the Hapsburg in the Ionian for 2VP - the Hapsburg gives him 1VP and a card, since he can go for the win by attacking Buda. Ottoman then pirates him on the North African Coast, and he now has no choice but to give him 2VP.

Papacy puts 1 CP into St. Peter’s, plus the 1CP he got from Tetzel.

New World

Narvaez whiffs, Roberval also whiffs in spite of Mercator’s Map. Coronado whiffs.

Score

Ottoman: 20
Hapsburg: 22
England: 20
France: 19
Papacy: 20
Protestant: 11



Turn 6

Diplomacy

Ottoman allies with France and gives him a card draw. Hapsburg allies with the Papacy and receives from him two mercs, the Andrea Doria leader and some fleets. France makes peace with the Papacy, allies with him, and gives him Calais in exchange for Florence.

Deployment

Ottoman deploys to Szegedin, Hapsburg to Besancon. England does not deploy. France deploys to Florence. Papacy deploys a unit to Augsburg.

Religious Conflict

First impulse, England plays A Mighty Fortress for CP, but then France plays the Calvin event so Luther dies and the Protestant can’t get it. (The Catholic powers promised France two card draws to the Protestant’s one, correctly calculating that they would never have to pay because the game would be over.) Papacy then excommunicates Calvin; Contarini and Farel tie, then Pole and Bullinger tie. Society of Jesus then comes out; Papacy places universities in Paris and Besancon. In the Leipzig Debate, Eck beats Farel 3-1, flipping Lyons and Grenoble. Protestant puts 2CP into French translation and 1CP into English, flipping Tyndale. Papacy burns books with Caraffa, flipping Geneva, Strasburg and Basel. Protestant puts 1CP into French and publishes a treatise in German, retaking Basel and Strasburg. Papacy marches his unit from Augsburg to Worms, then burns books with Tetzel, re-retaking Strasburg and Basel. Protestant publishes but fails in both Basel and Strasburg. Protestant then marches his four mercs from Brandenburg to Worms - illegally, since he wasn’t allowed to both besiege and leave Wittenberg on the same turn, but we didn’t realize that until too late. The Papal unit evades to Strasburg. Papacy then plays Erasmus for the event, flipping Worms but missing in Augsburg, Regensburg and Salzburg. Protestant sends three of the four units in Worms to attack the Papal unit in Strasburg; on three dice to two he loses 0-2, and even his remaining unit is lost because it can’t retreat into a space it doesn’t control. With the remainder of his CP he raises three mercs in Leipzig. Papacy plays Peasant’s War for the event, placing unrest in Zurich, Innsbruck, Erfurt, Lubeck and Stettin. This puts the Papacy on 25VP, but fortunately the Protestant can remove unrest even without an LOC. Protestant plays Fuggers to draw two cards. With the unrest in Zurich making it nearly impossible for him to get back into France before he completes the French Bible, he instead removes unrest in Erfurt and then publishes a treatise with Knox, flipping Berwick and Glasgow. On his final impulse he publishes and takes Worms but not Strasburg, then completes the French Bible and takes Brest but misses in Nantes, Calais, and Boulogne; going out of zone for his last two attempts he misses in Linz but flips Breslau. Papacy then plays Pilgrimage of Grace, using it for CPs to go for the long-shot win. He starts a debate in French, but Cop beats Aleander 1-3 and flips three spaces due to Aleander’s text (the spaces were never chosen because it didn’t matter).

Eastern Theater

Protestant begins by playing his now-useless home card (Luther having died, see above) to raise four mercs and besiege Brandenburg - having forgotten that with no fortified spaces of his own and no alliances he cannot get an LOC. Hapsburg plays Janissaries Rebel; unrest placed on Scutari, Durazzo, Coron and Bucharest. As the turn approaches its end, the Ottoman attacks Buda and Hungary falls. This puts the Ottoman on 25VP.

Western Theater

Charles besieges Metz. England builds two ships in Portsmouth; France immediately sails over and attacks them, but loses two ships to one for the English. He plays Professional Rowers to try to salvage the battle but whiffs on all three dice. England builds another ship there, then the next impulse he builds two more and sails into the Channel. Both French ships go down with no English losses. Hapsburg finally assaults Metz most of the way through the turn, taking it.

Special

First impulse, Ottoman pirates the Hapsburg on the North African Coast for 1VP. Then he pirates the Papacy in the Tyrrhenian but whiffs.

France builds a chateau; Papacy puts 4CP into St. Peter’s, in addition to the 1CP from Tetzel, completing the basilica.

New World

De Vaca and Roberval both whiff. Hapsburg, initially on 24VP to the Ottoman’s 25VP, conquers the Aztecs with Montejo, leapfrogging him to 26VP and the win.

Score

Ottoman: 25
Hapsburg: 26
England: 20
France: 20
Papacy: 22
Protestant: 11
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Jason Johns
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Great AAR! It's a good style and reads very easily.

I know that others don't agree, but it seems to me that the Prots never win. If the Haps can get one turn free from other onslaught, they usually hammer the Prots. In my 15 games or so, I have seen the Prot go over 25, but NEVER win. IMO he is just to fragile of a power.
 
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Greg Forster
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Well, I've only won once, and it was as the Prots.

Playing the Prots is much more complex than people think. If you think that playing the Prots is "Yahtzee" then you'll always lose with them because you aren't seeing the level that you need to be playing on to win with them.

Your only hope of winning is to pull off all three of the following:

1) Absolutely maximize use of debater bonuses. For the Papacy, the debater bonuses are candy. For the Prots they are your core game. You need to squeeze every possible bonus you can out of those guys.

2) Use creative diplomacy to get the religious events played. And, of course, coordinate them with the best possible use of debater bonuses. On a similar note, offer England something - like a card draw - to get divorced on Turn 3 so Cranmer enters on Turn 4.

3) Make sure the Hapsburg never gets a turn with no one else to fight but you!

This is in addition to the advice that goes for all powers, such as reserving your resources for well-timed bursts of power. For example, I think on Turn 3 the Prots need to lay low and come out of the gate swinging on Turn 4 - if you've gotten Cranmer out, the Papacy will have to choose one of the two new reformers to excommunicate, and you just build on the other one.
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Jason Johns
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Greg Forster wrote:
Well, I've only won once, and it was as the Prots.

Playing the Prots is much more complex than people think. If you think that playing the Prots is "Yahtzee" then you'll always lose with them because you aren't seeing the level that you need to be playing on to win with them.

Your only hope of winning is to pull off all three of the following:

1) Absolutely maximize use of debater bonuses. For the Papacy, the debater bonuses are candy. For the Prots they are your core game. You need to squeeze every possible bonus you can out of those guys.

2) Use creative diplomacy to get the religious events played. And, of course, coordinate them with the best possible use of debater bonuses. On a similar note, offer England something - like a card draw - to get divorced on Turn 3 so Cranmer enters on Turn 4.

3) Make sure the Hapsburg never gets a turn with no one else to fight but you!

This is in addition to the advice that goes for all powers, such as reserving your resources for well-timed bursts of power. For example, I think on Turn 3 the Prots need to lay low and come out of the gate swinging on Turn 4 - if you've gotten Cranmer out, the Papacy will have to choose one of the two new reformers to excommunicate, and you just build on the other one.


I get you. I understand all of these rules and positions, but still don't see them win. #3 is a game killer. He takes 2 or 3 electorates and you're toast. Nothing to do about that. So...

I just keep seeing them not win. They are fun to play.
 
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Greg Forster
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At one point in this game, when the Hapsburg had three electorates to my three, he offered to sell me one of them back if I would agree not to try to retake the other two at any time in the future. That would leave me with the extra card draw, though effectively shut out of a VP win and having to go for the 50 space win. I rejected the offer, but it does point up the possibility of finding accomodations with the Hapsburg if the diplomatic situation just doesn't allow you to fend him off.
 
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Yep, as Prot I worked with the Haps to stop a rampaging Frenchman. I still don't see them win...ever. We can just agree to disagree. I think that they are very hampered and will not win their 1 in 6 times average.
 
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Martin
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iamspamus wrote:
Yep, as Prot I worked with the Haps to stop a rampaging Frenchman. I still don't see them win...ever. We can just agree to disagree. I think that they are very hampered and will not win their 1 in 6 times average.


The first round results of the current BPA Here I Stand play by email tournament were posted on ConsimWorld this morning:

"11 Six player games were completed in this initial round. The Turks were the big winners winning in four of the games. The other powers fell in line thusly: France-3; Protestants-2; Hapsburgs-1; Papacy-1; and England-0"
 
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itsmarty wrote:
iamspamus wrote:
Yep, as Prot I worked with the Haps to stop a rampaging Frenchman. I still don't see them win...ever. We can just agree to disagree. I think that they are very hampered and will not win their 1 in 6 times average.


The first round results of the current BPA Here I Stand play by email tournament were posted on ConsimWorld this morning:

"11 Six player games were completed in this initial round. The Turks were the big winners winning in four of the games. The other powers fell in line thusly: France-3; Protestants-2; Hapsburgs-1; Papacy-1; and England-0"


Cool. We must be doing something wrong. I've played 12-14 games, with different groups (PBEM, with one or more players switching out each time & a couple of local groups). Of these, we've seen Haps 3 or 4 times, Otts 3, Fra and Eng 2 or 3 each, Pap 1 or maybe 2, Prot 0.

 
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Stephen Koehler
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Regarding the BPA tournament, remember that it is the Tournament Scenario which is won with 23 VPs.
 
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Philip Thomas
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I just won a game as the Protestants- HIS 165. 27 VPs on Turn 4, with England on 26 just behind.

The Schmalkdic League didn't form until the end of the turn, which is always helpful.

I had planned to win by translating all 3 Bibles by the end of turn 4, but I was thwarted by Servetus, so couldn't complete the French Bible. Fortunately I gained enough Protestant spaces to win anyway. 5 of the spaces were gained through the Pope calling and losing debates in England.

I should also say that I was helped by considerably by the Ottoman decision to invade the Papal States on Turn 4. The Ottomans forced the Pope to waste cards fighting him, rather than counter-reforming.
 
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