Recommend
21 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: Nazi Luftwaffe 'Stealth Fighter' Re-Created rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Robert Wesley
Nepal
Aberdeen
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mb
Check it out! surprise http://tinyurl.com/mdxcwn cool
12 
 Thumb up
0.32
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason
United States
Arnold
Missouri
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tagging to look at later. tinyurl is blocked here cry

Oooo...on the same note. Anyone know or recall the 'site that did full colour painting of "prototype" WW2 aircraft?


found it myself (decided to not be lazy) http://www.luft46.com/
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Greg Poulos
United States
Oak Park
Illinois
flag msg tools
I guess there's more to starting a game company than just having a name... :(
badge
What we are dealing with here is a perfect engine, a gaming machine. It's really a miracle of evolution. All this gamer does is sleep and eat and place little meeples, and that's all.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sweet. it's like the Me 262 project, but cooler! http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wulf Corbett
Scotland
Shotts
Lanarkshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Calling the Horten fighter a Stealth Fighter is a bit misleading. Horten always designed flying wing aircraft, dozens of them (mostly gliders), like Northrop in the USA, and the 'Stealth' aspects of this design were mostly accidental. It was, for example, primarily made of wood because that's about all they had available! Nice to see it flying again though.
3 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Orlando Ramirez
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If I recall correctly, there's a special on it on the National Geographic Channel. Sometime soon, and I guess this article is timed to go along with it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bob
United States
flag msg tools
Be sure to taste your words, before you spit them out.
badge
If you climb in the saddle, be ready for the ride.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks Grog! thumbsup

As a former military aviator and Northrop Grumman employee, I'm awed to see this piece of history revealed. Anyone know if (when) this information will appear on a TV?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Orlando Ramirez
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
from thier website:

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hitler-s-steal...

Sunday July 5th, 1pm. there's sure to be a repeat eventually if you miss it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad
United States
Anthem
Arizona
flag msg tools
Rise, Men of Sherwood, and Play Games!
badge
Heroes can, on occasion, be made of plastic...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I watched the special on Sunday night on National Geographic channel. They seemed to indicate that although the wood in design may not have been to reduce radar signature, the engine cowlings and some other features may have been.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Tan
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
That's me and my other pastime. I perform as John Lennon in several Beatles tribute acts.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
According to the NGC documentary, the RADAR signature was only reduced by 20% but combined with its high speed, the Allied reaction window from time of detection to reaching its target was shortened from 8 minutes to 2.5 minutes. They suggested that with such a short response time, the Allies would not be able to effectively intercept the Ho 229. Therefore, even in limited numbers it could have been a devastating precision tactical bomber for taking out radar stations and airfields. Of course virtually the same argument could be made with the Me 262. The problem is the Me262 or Ho 229 lacked the range and Luftwaffe lacked the fuel and the experienced pilots to reach England by late 1944 / early 1945. Let's say they sent 50 "crack" Luftwaffe pilots in Ho 229's to wipe out all the radar stations and air fields. What massive air fleet would be available to expolit the situation at a strategic level?

So basically if they had the Ho 229 or Me 262 in 1940, they would have won the Battle of Britain. Duh!!!!
3 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wulf Corbett
Scotland
Shotts
Lanarkshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
m3tan wrote:
The problem is the Me262 or Ho 229 lacked the range and Luftwaffe lacked the fuel and the experienced pilots to reach England by late 1944 / early 1945.
One further problem was the lack of titanium to line the combustion chambers of the engines. Without this heat-absorbent material, Germany relied on sprayed Aluminium - effective in the short run, but it quickly burned through, meaning a Me 262 engine had an operational lifetime of only around 10 hours - including ground running, takeoff & landing, etc. There's no way engine production & rebuilding could have kept up with a jet-propelled Luftwaffe!
3 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timothy Young
United Kingdom
Keighley
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It would be very cool to see technology like this available in operational level WW2 games if the Germans can devote enough energy to them.

It is often forgotten that the Germans did use jet powered bombers during the war - the Arado Ar 234 although it suffered from the problems mentioned below, too few crew and too little fuel.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timothy Young
United Kingdom
Keighley
West Yorkshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
m3tan wrote:
So basically if they had the Ho 229 or Me 262 in 1940, they would have won the Battle of Britain.


Perhaps, but we have to assume that if the Germans had jet engine technology in 1940, the British would have similarly developed it at that time. The British jet engine development was moving at a pretty similar pace to that of the Germans and the Gloster Meteor was actually in use shortly before the Me 262.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
The replica does not fly.

Also, stealth 'material' was suppose to be in the glue - a carbon filler. Wood charcoal used as an aggregate.

I do agree it was quite accidental to find it stealthy.



Here is the NatGeo website for it.

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hitler-s-steal...

The wikipedia article for it is pretty good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horten_Ho_229

Of greater concern, why were my tax payer dollars wasted on this?



2 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Barnett-Lewis
United States
Hayward
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wilhammer wrote:

Of greater concern, why were my tax payer dollars wasted on this?


Why not? Research, even/especially historical research often has surprising results. The full results of this testing didn't appear online or on the TV but is probably in a vault next to the Tacit Blue papers...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shane Woyak
United States
Stevens Point
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Everybody POLKA!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Support the FairTax! surprise

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Sorry, couldn't resist. whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Tan
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
That's me and my other pastime. I perform as John Lennon in several Beatles tribute acts.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tim RTC wrote:
m3tan wrote:
So basically if they had the Ho 229 or Me 262 in 1940, they would have won the Battle of Britain.


Perhaps, but we have to assume that if the Germans had jet engine technology in 1940, the British would have similarly developed it at that time. The British jet engine development was moving at a pretty similar pace to that of the Germans and the Gloster Meteor was actually in use shortly before the Me 262.


My point was that it is absurd to suggest that the Ho 229 could have changed the outcome of war as they insinuated. It makes for good TV but bad history...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James McHaffey
United States
Rancho Santa Fe
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Tim RTC wrote:
m3tan wrote:
So basically if they had the Ho 229 or Me 262 in 1940, they would have won the Battle of Britain.


Perhaps, but we have to assume that if the Germans had jet engine technology in 1940, the British would have similarly developed it at that time. The British jet engine development was moving at a pretty similar pace to that of the Germans and the Gloster Meteor was actually in use shortly before the Me 262.


Not all jets are created equal however. The Bell P59 and Meteor were no match for the German jet powered designs. Caproni actually had the first operational jet of the war but it was a PoS...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Wilson
Canada
Riverview
New Brunswick
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Heinkel 280 and Me 262 were way ahead of the allied jets , but as Wulf pointed out, they were hampered by the lack of strategic materials for the engine construction. Trying to compare the meteor or airacomet to them is like comparing apples and oranges.

The me163 was another brilliant idea but hampered by delays in making the engine throttlable, but then the pilots only used it in 2 positions anyway, on or off due to the amount of fuel used , so they wasted 18 months for no reason , good news for the allies however!

Wasnt it Howard Hughes that wanted to fix up a 262 and fly it against the USAF fighters in the late 40s? as he theorised that the swept wing would be a lot more efficient?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wulf Corbett
Scotland
Shotts
Lanarkshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dude163 wrote:
Wasnt it Howard Hughes that wanted to fix up a 262 and fly it against the USAF fighters in the late 40s? as he theorised that the swept wing would be a lot more efficient?
Interestingly, the Soviets took a captured 262, and built the Su-9 from it (there were TWO Su-9 designs - possibly to cover up this one's existence). The Su-9 had a straight wing, but otherwise looked a lot like a 262 - and was apparently as fast, and more manoeuvrable, and with much better engines. The major flaw in the design was that it was designed from the 262 - and good old Stalin would shoot anyone who used Nazi technology... shake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
Nazi Stealth Jet Could Have Won War for Hitler

Courtesy of FauxNews:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529548,00.html?test=face...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.