Jan Vater
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After reading the sample scenario card, it seems the good ole' Umlaut issue (i.e. those nasty little dots over some letters (the vowels a, o and u, when used in a sound shifting way in spoken German), so often encountered in German) has hit on the Jensens again.

It really is a minor quibble, goes without saying, but i can't help wondering why e.g. 'Sturmgeschütz' is spelled correctly with the diacritic above the second 'u', whereas it is lacking in 'Schütze' and 'Füsilier'? I can't imagine Chad or Kai (or John) being careless about details so i assume it"s the usual bad source problem?

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Mark Buetow
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I hope you will write them personally to make sure things are as accurate as possible. They will surely appreciate your helpful editing!
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Jan Vater
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I really am curious where game designers look for their foreign language terminology. As a rule of thumb, most get it wrong anyway (do i hear someone say ASL?) and that's a pity, regarding all the painful research that must've gone into these games. So it seems the same old spoiled sources are used over and over again. Which actually creates a very own wargaming language, with words like Kreigsmarine (sic), Blitzkreig (sic), Liebstandarte (sic) or (personal favorite) Strumgeshuz (very sic).

On the other hand, these designs are made for the USA market and why bother about a tiny little diacritic, which is a curiosity to american eyes anyway?
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Kai Jensen
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Jan, I am very interested in getting all the details correct. I am making a list of corrections as they come up. Thank you for your input!
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Jan Vater
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Kai,

judging from the few excerpts i managed to glance over, i'd say you actually got most details correct. Spelling of military terms has changed even in German over the decades, so some kind of line has to be drawn anyway. For example, the GD has been retitled as a 'Panzer-Grenadier-Division' in 1943, wheras the modern German army uses the term 'Panzergrenadierdivision' for their formations. So, it can be quite quite confusing to get the right term.

Regarding the GD, the following OOB terms were used from mid-'43 on:

Grenadier-Regiment Großdeutschland

Füsilier-Regiment Großdeutschland

Panzer-Regiment Großdeutschland

Panzer-Aufklärungs-Abteilung Großdeutschland

Panzerjäger-Abteilung Großdeutschland

Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment Großdeutschland

Heeres-Flakartillerie-Abteilung Großdeutschland

Pionier-Bataillon Großdeutschland

Nachrichten-Abteilung Großdeutschland


Please notice the use of the so-called 'Esszett' letter 'ß', instead of the double s, which is unfortunately not part of ASCII and thusly quite unknown outside the German language area.

Hope this helps, if you need a helping hand in editing the german terms, just let me know,
Jan
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Chadwik
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Thanks for the input, Jan. I've spent a great deal of time trying to figure out which letters in which words are supposed to have the umlaut. I'm close, but not quite there yet.

It's funny: I actually had the umlaut in "Füsilier" for the longest time. But then every time I would see the word online or in books the umlaut wasn't there so I took it off, assuming that I had been wrong to begin with.

As far as the esszett character, I believe that I dropped its usage in the game because only one of the various fonts that I use had it as a glyph -- so to maintain consistency throughout the components I've decided to stick with the English double ss.

In any case, I plan on posting a pdf of the near-final rulebook in the coming months. If you wouldn't mind going through it and letting me know where certain German words and terms need editing I'd be most appreciative, Jan.
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Robert Wilson
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Chad, could you guys use the esszett on the boxcover?

I think it looks cool, but I also like d4s too......
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Chadwik
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Since Roger MacGowan will be doing the box art, I'm sure he could come up with an esszett character. I'll see what he thinks when the time comes, Robert.
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John Foley
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Jan, we care very much about the details you mention - getting the spelling and the orthography as correct as possible is really desirable. With Cyrillic, it's worse because there are a wide variety transliterations, not to mention which nation's applicable spelling is to be used.

Since we're focused on a German formation using German sources, it makes sense to maintain that focus and provide town, village, river names according to the German perspective. If we are long-lived enough in this series to have a solid Soviet source as the primary focus for a formation of interest, then I think it would be consistent and appropriate to use the appropriate transliterations for the same places (if we encounter them).

This is my feeling on the matter - it cannot govern Chad's ultimate decision. But I join with Chad and Kai to say - these things do matter. And thank you.
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Kevin Duke
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That's a very cool approach.

Americans are "bad" about not caring for this sort of thing... like thinking it makes a game look "Russian" if the name includes an "R" but they make the R "backwards,"... never mind that this letter in Russian is a "ya" sound. Etc. Etc.

If it helps, keep in mind how you expect to pronounce "fusiler." Without the umlaut, it's a "short" U, as in "mutt" or "butt."
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Jan Vater
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Chad Jensen wrote:

In any case, I plan on posting a pdf of the near-final rulebook in the coming months. If you wouldn't mind going through it and letting me know where certain German words and terms need editing I'd be most appreciative, Jan.


Kai, Chad, John,

i'd feel honored to lend a hand, goes without saying.

Just drop me a PM and i'll see what i can do.

Looking forward to see the results of all your hard work,

Jan
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Roger Hobden
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to be consistent with the german language :

if you want to use " Grossdeutschland" in the title, the rest should read as " Infanterie Division " ( or " Fusstruppe Division " ? ) , no ?
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Chadwik
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I don't think so. Grossdeutschland is a specific title; a proper noun. "Infanterie" on the other hand is simply the German spelling of the English word "Infantry."
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Roger Hobden
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OK

" GREATER GERMANY INFANTRY DIVISION " would be a nice title for a game also, I believe.
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MidKentGamerUK wrote:
It'd be muchly appreciated if the game titles could remain 'Americanised' (ie no wee dots or giant lumpy S's) as it's a right royal pain in the plums trying to 'search' online game stores/eBay for games with them!

Ta ever so


You mean, like, "Fighting Formations?"
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Mark Buetow
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MidKentGamerUK wrote:
Malacandra wrote:
You mean, like, "Fighting Formations?"


I mean, like, "Grossdeutschland" rather than 'Großdeutschland' - did that really need to be spelt out for you?


I meant "what's so hard about doing a search for a title like 'fighting formations.'" - did that really need to be spelled out for you?
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Food fight!
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Russ Williams
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Watch out for similar issues in other languages, e.g. Polish - the beautiful Friedrich map has Polish Ł correctly but ended up erroneously dropping the diacritical marks from all other Polish letters (Ą, Ę, Ć, etc to A, E, C etc), so that (e.g.) Łódź ended up (mis)printed as Łodz.
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The game is of course published already, but one way to write 'umlauts' (umlaeuten?) is to type / use an 'e' after the original vowel that features the umlaut, so that a(umlaut) = ae, o(umlaut) = oe, u(umlaut) = ue. You can write words with these 'umlauted' letters this way if your keyboard doesn't support / allow typing the 'umlauts'. Either way is equally correct grammatically ...
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