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Race for the Galaxy: Rebel vs Imperium» Forums » Rules

Subject: Special Military in take over rss

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bill reeves
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Curious as to others interpertation of the take over rules regarding special ized military
Do you only add them to the attackers or does the defender get to use his as well (ie if you both had alien military power an an alien planet was in contention

thanks
 
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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Both the defender and attacker use their specialized military as applies to the world in question.
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Tom Lehmann
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From RvI rules page 4:

Any temporary Military being used, negative, or specialized Military, such
as against Rebel military worlds or based on the target’s kind of world
(Rare, Alien, etc.), do apply when calculating *each* player’s total Military [emphasis added].
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bill reeves
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thanks guys
I just love this game, we are drooling over the new expansion and are having tons of fun with the new cards and mechanics. I really appreciate the thought you have applied to each expansion. I can really feel the benfit of all your playtesting and balancing

thanks for replying to my query too!
 
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Andrew Parks
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So just to clarify:

If Player A is attempting to takeover a Rebel Military Planet from Player B, then Player B adds his own bonus normally used in attacking Rebel Military Planets?

Thanks!

Andrew
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Tom Lehmann
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Yes.
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Andrew Parks
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Cool. Thanks!

Andrew
 
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Yes.
This is really interesting!! The cards describe the bonus as "+1 to place a world" (emphasis is mine), so it's good to know that the bonus goes beyond placing a world. I wish a more precise wording were used... but I won't complain, as finding a satisfying wording is probably not an easy task.
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Conquering a world is one way to place a world. See the middle of page 5 of the base game rules, where the act of placing military worlds using Military is defined to be "conquer".

Unless we specifically need to call out the term "conquer", we use the more general term "place" in power descriptions so as to make it clear that using such powers is compatible with powers that rely on world placement, such as the Settle bonus or "Draw After" powers (such as on Terraforming Robots). If, instead, we used "conquer" when describing specialized Military, then this would produce questions as to whether conquering a world counted as placing a world.

On page 4 (last paragraph) and page 5 (middle paragraph) of the RvI rules, we explicitly state that all specialized military applies to takeovers and that successful takeovers count as "placing" a world for the purpose of the settle bonus and Draw After powers.

I think we are being both very precise and consistent in our word usage. Whether this is surviving the translation process is unclear to me...
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Conquering a world is one way to place a world. See the middle of page 5 of the base game rules, where the act of placing military worlds using Military is defined to be "conquer".

Unless we specifically need to call out the term "conquer", we use the more general term "place" in power descriptions so as to make it clear that using such powers is compatible with powers that rely on world placement, such as the Settle bonus or "Draw After" powers (such as on Terraforming Robots). If, instead, we used "conquer" when describing specialized Military, then this would produce questions as to whether conquering a world counted as placing a world.

On page 4 (last paragraph) and page 5 (middle paragraph) of the RvI rules, we explicitly state that all specialized military applies to takeovers and that successful takeovers count as "placing" a world for the purpose of the settle bonus and Draw After powers.

I think we are being both very precise and consistent in our word usage. Whether this is surviving the translation process is unclear to me...
This did survive the translation into French!

I get your point about conquering being a way of "placing" a world, and I find that this is indeed made very clear in the rule book. However, if I am not mistaken, my point about "placing" a world not covering defending it still holds, right? i.e., it would be good if the text for conquest bonuses did address the fact that they can be used for defense, right?

(I may have missed something, so please forgive me if I'm wrong!! )

PS: It feels good to get some input from an authoritative source like you, Tom! Thank you so much!!
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Tom Lehmann
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Rather than introduce the concept of "defending" worlds into the base set (for Galactic Imperium and all the specialized military based on kind power text) where it would make absolutely no sense whatsoever, we chose to simply state that specialized Military applies to each player's military calculations during takeovers within the takeover rules (RvI rules, page 4).

Since this arises only in the context of takeovers, this is the appropriate way to handle it. This was done, in part, to minimize the number of icons besides text powers to signify "ignore this except when playing takeovers". Break each specialized military power (and there are a fair number of them scattered throughout the base set and first expansion) into multiple powers and then mark each defense power with a takeover shield??? I think this would be a very poor UI decision.

The text descriptions and icons are there as helpful reminders. They are not the rules. Yes, we did a good enough job with them that they can sometimes substitute for the rules, but this doesn't change the fact that the rules exist and that some concepts are best presented as rules. For example, the cards do not define what a takeover is. That is done in the rules. The rules for how to calculate your military when doing takeovers is provided in the takeover rules.
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Tom Lehmann wrote:
Rather than introduce the concept of "defending" worlds into the base set (for Galactic Imperium and all the specialized military based on kind power text) where it would make absolutely no sense whatsoever, we chose to simply state that specialized Military applies to each player's military calculations during takeovers within the takeover rules (RvI rules, page 4).
This makes sense, indeed. That's exactly what I had in mind when I said that a finding a better "details" text was probably not easy!

Quote:
The text descriptions and icons are there as helpful reminders. They are not the rules.
Granted. I now see why I got confused and asked myself the same question as Andrew in this thread: I took the text on the card as being equivalent to the symbol ("+1 to place a military rebel world"), whereas the symbol/power only implies the written bonus, but also implies other bonuses (such as a defense bonus). It all makes sense, now!! Thanks!

[Edit: typo]
 
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Tom Lehmann
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Glad to hear that! ;-)
 
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