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Subject: Too much sex in books rss

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Snowball
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First of all, this is not about sex versus violence. Or rather, if someone want to bring that on the table let's be clear that I speak of graphic, detailed sex, which would compare with a graphic description of blood pumping out and open bellies letting guts go out; this kind of violence rarely appears in books I read, as for the sex....

1°The topless beach effect.

When I was 14 my parents went on vacations bringing me along in spain. T-o-p-l-e-s-s girls tolerated on the beaches!!!
For one week I spent days spying mammary marvels getting honeyed by the sun, eyes hidden behing mirror shades and I watched so hard that my eyes nearly popped out their sockets.
That lasted one week; by the end of my vacations, I hardly noticed. Fortunately I recovered some of the interest since then.
I think some sex can add some spice to a novel; when it occurs every 10 pages or so, it becomes boring

2°Fantasy & SF

As, for professional reasons, I can't take so much leave in the summer season, I compensate by reading mostly mindless, fun fantasy, sf and novels.
I notice a trend in including sex scene in otherwise quite childish books; my teen daughter likes fantasy too, but she is limited to the children section of the bookstore.
There is no middleground; either sexless books, or books describing details I feel she's still too young (12) to tackle.
Heinlein was advocating free sex quite often in his novel, yet there was nothing "graphic" at all in his novels (at least those I read).
Jack Vance wrote novels better fit for adults (to get the humor), yet there is no sex depiction at all - just like the violence level is tame too.

3° Ken fucking Fowlett Follett

I liked Pillars of the Earth, so I bought the sequel, a World without end, a little while ago. (added for clarity) I read the sequel and...
There is even a rape scene depicted as a sexual act *where the victim takes pleasure*. And there is a sex scene every 15-20 pages.
Does a world best seller writer as Mr Follett needs that much sex to sell his novels? Does he need to compensate for his age by salivating while ponctuating his otherwise fine prose with salacious bits?

Now, I do not advocate against sex; I do prefer subtle eroticism vs anatomy depictions, and I am more aroused by a dress that shows some skin than by full frontal nudity; these things are a matter of choice after all, but then I feel my choices get more and more restricted.
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True Blue Jon
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Is this about Obama?

I agree with you.
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I agree with you, I'm pretty much sick of sex and nudity for titillation sake in stories/movies/television when it adds absolutely nothing for the story. It's a crutch to allure alleged consumers who supposedly would ignore the particular creation otherwise. I think creators of modern media sell their sudience short.

You mention Fanatsy/SF, but I'm particularly annoyed with Horror. You cannot see a Horror film without boobs it seems like. I've got nothing against boobs, but when I want to be horrified, why do I need boobs bouncing around the screen? H.P. Lovecraft got along great without mentioning boobs every few pages and set up a lasting legacy. These people who exploit sex/nudity/(and lets not beat around the bush, women) will be forgotten.
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Snowball
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quozl wrote:
Is this about Obama?

Who's that? SF writer?
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Seems to me that as popular authors age they add more and more sex to their books. Heinlen is a great example.

Still, sex is pretty much everything to humanity... at least those portions of it who can afford entertainment. So it's not surprising that it's the key component to books, movies, music, advertising and pretty much everything else from what clothes you buy to the vehicle you drive, the beer you drink and the tattoo you get after drinking too many sexy beers.
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Chad Ellis
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Have you read the Anita Blake series by Laurell K. Hamilton?

The first book in the series was a fantastic drama-mystery set in an alternate Earth where vampires, werewolves, etc., were real and had integrated somewhat into human society. The heroine is a kick-ass vampire killer and zombie raiser who is attracted to one of the master vampires but nothing happens. She hasn't had sex since college (she's late twenties in the book) with her fiance at the time, but she develops a love interest with a junior high teacher.

Gradually sex entered into the books and it was well done, albeit graphic enough to make it inappropriate for kids. The most recent books are almost entirely sex and the plots basically revolve around why she has to have sex with lots of different men with a sub-plot of how the sex gives her and sometimes them new powers.

I used to look forward to each book and enjoyed the addition of sex in moderation. Now I don't even plan to pick up the next one, although there's about a 50% chance that I'll grab it in paperback sometime when I'm in an airport.
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Snowball
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Have you read the Anita Blake series by Laurell K. Hamilton?

The first book in the series was a fantastic drama-mystery set in an alternate Earth where vampires, werewolves, etc., were real and had integrated somewhat into human society. The heroine is a kick-ass vampire killer and zombie raiser who is attracted to one of the master vampires but nothing happens. She hasn't had sex since college (she's late twenties in the book) with her fiance at the time, but she develops a love interest with a junior high teacher.

Gradually sex entered into the books and it was well done, albeit graphic enough to make it inappropriate for kids. The most recent books are almost entirely sex and the plots basically revolve around why she has to have sex with lots of different men with a sub-plot of how the sex gives her and sometimes them new powers.

I have not read that , and I won't this summer. I've already bought litteral piles of books that are waiting on my desk Next year maybe. Vampire and sex often mix together, like in Ann Rice where there is no shortage of sex. But these where adult stories; I ve got no problems with taht when it is really central to the story or makes it go further.
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CHAPEL
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Thank God for Heinlein at age 13, that and the Sears catalog...
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MWChapel wrote:
Thank God for Heinlein at age 13, that and the Sears catalog...


You really are a whippersnapper. When I was 13 Heinlein hadn't yet turned into a depraved old pervert. But, unlike most of you here, I lived 3 miles from Juarez and had access to all the depravity a young teen could stomach.

Maybe that's why porn never held a lot of allure for me... the internet is just a hi-tech version of the playing cards we used to buy in Mexico.
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John O'Haver PhoDOGrapher
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Do what I did. I quit reading non-fiction.

Quote:
I am more aroused by a dress that shows some skin than by full frontal nudity; these things are a matter of choice after all,


As a side bar, I don't know whether I'd get more aroused while wearing a dress that showed some skin than by being fully frontally nude but, then again, I've never chosen to wear a dress.

EDIT: I meant I quit reading fiction.
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Mystery McMysteryface
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I also agree and am female, a lifetime reader, and have read all types of books and genres.

If sex and/or violence are integral to the story, then I usually have no problem with it. I am not squeamish with the written word but will not seek out a book that is all sex or violence unless it is highly recommended, integral to the story, and a "must read."

However, gratuitous sex, violence, sexual violence, and especially sexual violence against children, adds nothing to a story and for me, totally detracts from it and leads me to NOT recommend the book/author.

I've sometimes read books that give me a reaction similar to some PG children's films: like they artifically inserted something shocking or not-for-children to attract adults/wider audience.

I recently read "Pillars of the Earth" and loved the beginning, but had to force myself to finish it. The book felt like it was extended, however the numerous rape scenes were sometimes written too much from the rapist's point of view (i.e., that it was enjoyable). It seemed like the author was relishing these scenes a bit too much. I thought I was being overly sensitive since I am female, so it is good to see a male perspective and that I might have been onto something.

I remember finding the Jack London books graphically violent, but it is called for and proper in the context of those stories. I found it harsh, but it did not bother me nor did I question it.
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John W
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I think the female perspective is more interesting with regards to this subject -

especially the rise in graphically sexual fiction (especially vampire/supernatural) that are written primarily for the female audience.
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Snowball
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EgorjLileli wrote:

I recently read "Pillars of the Earth" and loved the beginning, but had to force myself to finish it. The book felt like it was extended, however the numerous rape scenes were sometimes written too much from the rapist's point of view (i.e., that it was enjoyable). It seemed like the author was relishing these scenes a bit too much. I thought I was being overly sensitive since I am female, so it is good to see a male perspective and that I might have been onto something.

Well do not read the sequel then, because I actually felt Pillars to be tolerable; "A world without end" is much worse in this regard.
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Snowball
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Drew1365 wrote:
Ken Follett!

Ken F Follett!!
(oh and I mispelled his name, you made me realise that, thx!)
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I have close to zero interest in the styles you mention partly because of that. It's not that I find that disturbing, offensive or gratuitous; it's just plain boring.
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I tend to prefer old SF-- Golden Age stuff. It's generally written better in my opinion than the newer stuff and also doesn't for the most part have these issues.
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Drew1365 wrote:
As a side bar, there's a guy in our neighborhood who wears a pleated skirt everywhere. Kind of like a cheerleader skirt, but a bit longer.

Not arousing in the least.


I'm sure your wife thinks you're arousing.
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quozl wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
As a side bar, there's a guy in our neighborhood who wears a pleated skirt everywhere. Kind of like a cheerleader skirt, but a bit longer.

Not arousing in the least.


I'm sure your wife thinks you're arousing.


This comment belongs in the "Ho's and Bro's" thread.
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DWTripp wrote:
This comment belongs in the "Ho's and Bro's" thread.


Are you calling my bro a ho?
 
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
Have you read the Anita Blake series by Laurell K. Hamilton?

The first book in the series was a fantastic drama-mystery set in an alternate Earth where vampires, werewolves, etc., were real and had integrated somewhat into human society. The heroine is a kick-ass vampire killer and zombie raiser who is attracted to one of the master vampires but nothing happens. She hasn't had sex since college (she's late twenties in the book) with her fiance at the time, but she develops a love interest with a junior high teacher.

Gradually sex entered into the books and it was well done, albeit graphic enough to make it inappropriate for kids. The most recent books are almost entirely sex and the plots basically revolve around why she has to have sex with lots of different men with a sub-plot of how the sex gives her and sometimes them new powers.

I used to look forward to each book and enjoyed the addition of sex in moderation. Now I don't even plan to pick up the next one, although there's about a 50% chance that I'll grab it in paperback sometime when I'm in an airport.


I have read most of them as well, and loaned them out to a friend. She liked them but she said her husband really liked them (and he never even read them!).

On to the meat of the subject; I found that the Anita Blake series devolved far too much into a sexfest. Neat vampire mystery series, now every vampire series has explicit sex.
 
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Johannes Åman Pohjola
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HavocIsHere wrote:
Jack Vance wrote novels better fit for adults (to get the humor), yet there is no sex depiction at all - just like the violence level is tame too.


Jack Vance seems to have quite the opposite problem: there's too little sex. Often, the chemistry between his male and female characters seems to hint at sexual tension, but because he's too prudelike, he never releases the tension. He just goes on with the story and pretends it's not there. This feels weird and contrived to me, since there's just void and emptiness where the sex should have been. By stripping his characters of their sexuality, he's making them a little less human, which is a shame since his worlds are otherwise very rich and vivid.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Also, despite this glaring lack of sex, he manages to create completely flat female characters whose only purpose in the story, seemingly, is to develop and nurture some weird emotional attachment to the lead male character. However, I don't want to derail the thread so I'm putting spoiler tags around this off-topic remark.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The butler did it.
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Darren M
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Luckily there are what... at least 6 or 7 books out there so we can all choose what we like and not have to read books about things that irritate us.

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nexttothemoon wrote:
Luckily there are what... at least 6 or 7 books out there so we can all choose what we like and not have to read books about things that irritate us.


But when you start reading a book you cannot be sure that you have no graphic sex in. Which I find more and more often.
It is *not* as if I bought a porn movie and then complained about boobs and penises.
 
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HavocIsHere wrote:
nexttothemoon wrote:
Luckily there are what... at least 6 or 7 books out there so we can all choose what we like and not have to read books about things that irritate us.


But when you start reading a book you cannot be sure that you have no graphic sex in. Which I find more and more often.
It is *not* as if I bought a porn movie and then complained about boobs and penises.


What do you suggest? Advisory stickers?
 
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HavocIsHere wrote:
nexttothemoon wrote:
Luckily there are what... at least 6 or 7 books out there so we can all choose what we like and not have to read books about things that irritate us.


But when you start reading a book you cannot be sure that you have no graphic sex in. Which I find more and more often.
It is *not* as if I bought a porn movie and then complained about boobs and penises.


We can give you warnings. Just tell us what books you want to read and we will tell you whether its safe to read. devil
 
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