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Subject: Just Watched "the Dark Knight" (RSP?) rss

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It was quite odd to see that this movie was made. The film is a clear defense of G W Bush and his policies. Ledger's Joker seems quite the terrorist along Bin Laden lines. The clearest notes of the defense come clear within the cellphone operation scheme and in the final monologue delivered by Gordon.
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Tim Fiscus
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I liked the part with the chocolate river.
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Tim Fiscus
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...African Queen! Yes, that was the one. My favorite part was the one where Robin Leach and Jesse Helms were on the phone from the hospital lobby!
 
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No, this definitely belongs in Chit Chat.
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John W
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I thought it was a very odd movie, too.
Just lots wrong with tone, story, etc.
 
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I don't see the Joker = Osama connection. The Joker is insane, obsessed with chaos. Osama is caricatured as that, but really has an agenda that has roots in politics and religion.
 
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DarthXaos wrote:
Excellent movie.

Only issue I really had with it was that the Joker made too much sense. There's a lot about his philosophy that I can find myself agreeing with.

Comic Joker is a lot more random and crazy, and seems to be having a lot more fun with it, which is much more disturbing IMHO.

Still an excellent movie.


You know what, I didn't realise it at the time, but now that you have pointed it out, I agree with you 100%. In that context, Nicholson's Joker almost seems more accurate. The movie seemed to try just a teeny bit too hard to explain everbodies motiviations, but in the comic (at least post 70's) the Joker really was chaotic, sadistic and insane and loving every minute of it. They rarely tried to explain why he was. I especially enjoyed the Joker's darkness during the killing of Robin phase. I haven't read the comic in probably 10 years, so I don't know what the vibe is nowadays.

I, too, found myself empathizing with the movie Joker's soliloquy's.
 
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Osiris Ra wrote:
Just Watched "the Dark Knight"...


All of it? I could only get through the first hour before I gave up. Great eye candy as is usually from Hollywood... but horrible acting and story... then again, I am not a big fan of Batman except for the 1960's TV show. Eartha Kitt as Catwoman? How can you beat that?
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I hated 'Dark Knight'!!! The whole plot of the movie was incredibly lame! All of the police are either incredibly corrupt or incredibly stupid. The whole 'I just killed the love of your life, you should do what I tell you to do'. The Joker's philosophy was stupid. The whole ending were the people refused to blow each other up was highly improbable for the reasons given.
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pronoblem baalberith
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DarthXaos wrote:
Shitty taste is shitty


Agreed... that's why Hollywood makes so much cash.
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I loved the movie. IMO best comic book movie ever.
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lizardbaby wrote:
IMO best comic book movie ever.

Well, you're wrong. cool
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TheLightSarcastic wrote:
Maybe it's just because I like Freeman more than Christian Bale? I guess you could go either way on it.


You have good taste! Freeman's performance was one of the few things I enjoyed about the movie.
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MrSkeletor wrote:

Avoid Bruno, I heard it has parallels with the Obama administration.

Batman kicks spiderman's, Bruno's and Obama's ass.
(whoever this Obama guy might be).
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DarthXaos wrote:
Only issue I really had with it was that the Joker made too much sense. There's a lot about his philosophy that I can find myself agreeing with.

Comic Joker is a lot more random and crazy, and seems to be having a lot more fun with it, which is much more disturbing IMHO.

The Joker's explanations, to me, made him appear even more deranged.
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For me, the movie was a study on the line between necessary and unnecessary evil. The Joker wanted to bring everyone to the brink of that distinction. Batman wanted to police the boundary all by himself.

Somewhere between one person doing ill for the good of all, and all people doing ill for the good of themselves, there is a balance that is hard to define and achieve.
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Aetheros wrote:
For me, the movie was a study on the line between necessary and unnecessary evil. The Joker wanted to bring everyone to the brink of that distinction. Batman wanted to police the boundary all by himself.

Somewhere between one person doing ill for the good of all, and all people doing ill for the good of themselves, there is a balance that is hard to define and achieve.


This is wishful thinking. BTW, I liked the first movie! The great quote was where Batman says 'I won't kill you but I don't have to save you'. Batman's philosophy of 'I don't have to save you' was tossed under the bus. Things didn't make alot of sense. There were numerous times where Batman could have failed to save the Joker.

The first movie has some point. The police who weren't corrupt, were actually trying to do their jobs in a logical manner. They were overwhelmed and sold out. In this movie, the police were incompetent morons (or corrupt). The number of mindless contradictions in Dark Knight indicates this sequel was quickly mushed together and rushed to the theatres to capitolize on the first movie!
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MrSkeletor wrote:

You missed a point of the film - Batman's "I don't have to save you" choice was wrong. One of the things I like about the new Batman series is that Batman grows as a character even in the sequels (he has further room to grow for future ones) - his 'character growth' didn't end at the first one like what happens in every other super hero film.

You are the first person I have ever heard to say the sequel was mushed together to capitalize on the first movie (which was not a huge success on first run.) Personally I thought everything about the second - including the script - had a lot more care put into it.


I agree.

I thought that Dark Knight was one of the better superhero movies I've seen of late. I liked the joker a lot. I didn't really see an Osama/Bush reference beyond the fact one is a terrorist. I like the fact they didn't crowbar in a back story for the Joker like they did in Tim Burtons Batman (which I seem to remember was 'really dark' when it came out, but now doesn't seem so - interesting to see where the Dark Knight lies in 20 years time). I thought the acting was sound (although Christian Bale seems to have a lisp I only notice when he has the cowl on). Micheal Caine makes a very good Alfred.

And Yes, all the police are corrupt and/or Idiots. Apart form Gordon. It's supposed to be Batman against the world isn't it?
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Greendan wrote:
And Yes, all the police are corrupt and/or Idiots. Apart form Gordon. It's supposed to be Batman against the world isn't it?


Agree with you. Those viewing a batman movie and expecting a social documentary are in the wrong theatre.

It's entertainement, and nicely done imho.
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kaytel wrote:
DarthXaos wrote:
Only issue I really had with it was that the Joker made too much sense. There's a lot about his philosophy that I can find myself agreeing with.

Comic Joker is a lot more random and crazy, and seems to be having a lot more fun with it, which is much more disturbing IMHO.

The Joker's explanations, to me, made him appear even more deranged.

Actually the Joker didn't seem deranged to me, just pure evil. It was the fact that he was not deranged which made him all the more sinister. His level of self-awareness was rather high for being a villain and he was fully aware of his own motivations so that he wasn't really twisted by anything just fully aware of the evil and completely choosing to embrace it.

This was far more disturbing to me.

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jeff brown wrote:
kaytel wrote:
DarthXaos wrote:
Only issue I really had with it was that the Joker made too much sense. There's a lot about his philosophy that I can find myself agreeing with.

Comic Joker is a lot more random and crazy, and seems to be having a lot more fun with it, which is much more disturbing IMHO.

The Joker's explanations, to me, made him appear even more deranged.

Actually the Joker didn't seem deranged to me, just pure evil. It was the fact that he was not deranged which made him all the more sinister. His level of self-awareness was rather high for being a villain and he was fully aware of his own motivations so that he wasn't really twisted by anything just fully aware of the evil and completely choosing to embrace it.


You both reference at some length the Jokers 'motivation'. I seem to remember the film including 2 statements about the Jokers backstory which contridicted each other. Both from the Joker. I don't recall him being specific about why he was doing anything? I may be wrong I've only seen it twice. Why was he on a rampage? (I remember the line from the trailer "Some men just want to watch the world burn" being about as close as we got to an explanation).
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DarthXaos wrote:


I did love that bit, it went with the classic "My past is multiple choice".

I guess it's cause I find "wanting to watch the world burn" to be a legitimate motivation. Sometimes I want to watch the world burn.


Ok, what we got here is failure to communicate...

Hehe, I think we both have differant things we find disturbing. I think the wild manic Comic Joker is just that, a wild comic mad man. Where as DK Joker is kinda real. We all have days when we want to watch the world burn, you, me, the guy you saw in Walmart. How far is someone from going 'joker' on your ass? I think that's more disturbing. Differant strokes...
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Greendan wrote:
jeff brown wrote:
kaytel wrote:
DarthXaos wrote:
Only issue I really had with it was that the Joker made too much sense. There's a lot about his philosophy that I can find myself agreeing with.

Comic Joker is a lot more random and crazy, and seems to be having a lot more fun with it, which is much more disturbing IMHO.

The Joker's explanations, to me, made him appear even more deranged.

Actually the Joker didn't seem deranged to me, just pure evil. It was the fact that he was not deranged which made him all the more sinister. His level of self-awareness was rather high for being a villain and he was fully aware of his own motivations so that he wasn't really twisted by anything just fully aware of the evil and completely choosing to embrace it.


You both reference at some length the Jokers 'motivation'. I seem to remember the film including 2 statements about the Jokers backstory which contridicted each other. Both from the Joker. I don't recall him being specific about why he was doing anything? I may be wrong I've only seen it twice. Why was he on a rampage? (I remember the line from the trailer "Some men just want to watch the world burn" being about as close as we got to an explanation).

I don't think either backstory was true I think he was just trying to manipulate with his stories. I think it comes down to Just wanting to watch the world burn.

See that's the self awareness part, true evil eventually results in destruction, It's not about the empires, you can build as it will eventually implode on itself. I think the Joker understood this and just plain reveled in destruction. He loved destruction of property but far more he was trying to destroy souls. The soul of gotham so to speak by destroying the soul of its "white knight".
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