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Subject: Area full! rss

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George Murray
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Just wondering if I have played this correct. Suppose area 16 [which has 5 fields] has houses in 4 fields and you on your second shake roll a 16. Are you required to place a house on the last remaining field thereby fill up that area and then take all the houses not supplied with water off the board and out of the game? This would essentially force me to lose the house tile I had just played along with other houses not supplied with water. My Uberplay rules state "For each roll, the player MAY put one house tile on a free field." 'May' is usually not forcing unless translated incorrectly from the original german [may verses must]. Would this give me the option when rolling a 16 to decide to not place my house tile and just end my turn after only 1 roll?
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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Huh. I've always played "must", but I don't know what is "right".
 
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Randall Bart
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Drew1365 wrote:
Yep. You can stop there. You don't have to place it, but then you don't get any more rolls. cool

Right. If you build on the last space, then you remove the houses without water. But the only way to not build is to end all your building for the turn.
 
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Tomello Visello
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georgeandpeggy wrote:
Would this give me the option when rolling a 16 to decide to not place my house tile and just end my turn after only 1 roll?
Indeed. The sequence is to roll, then accept or decline. I feel this is a key element which mitigates the overall feeling of whether luck-of-the-die is harmful.

So accept/decline is basically a continue/halt decision on your turn. You gave the example as your second roll. Consider instead a heavier example if it came up on your first. The trade-off is whether to halt and give up two more rolls, or take a loss in order to keep rolling/placing.

 
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Jeff Shoot
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Barticus88 wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Yep. You can stop there. You don't have to place it, but then you don't get any more rolls. cool

Right. If you build on the last space, then you remove the houses without water. But the only way to not build is to end all your building for the turn.


Maybe I'm playing wrong or??? But from the rules it seems clear that you get "up to three rolls"... I don't have the rules in front of me, but I remember re-reading them to make sure, and that it was clear that you can only re-roll if you couldn't play anything.

So what is "all your building" then?

I think this would dramatically change the game. Frankly, I'd like to try both ways and keep the better.

Is there anybody out there that plays it like me and my family, i.e. you can only lay one tile a turn?
 
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Randall Bart
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On your turn, you can dig a well, dig canals, or build houses. If you choose to build houses, you roll, place tile, roll, place tile, roll place tile. If a roll points to an area that is full, you repeat that roll. If the area is not full, placing the tile is optional, but if you don't place the tile, you lose the rest of your rolls.
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Jeff Shoot
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Well, thanks for spelling that out! It certainly isn't clear from the rule book. To me, it's just as likely interpreted as "up to three roles... if needed (because the first two areas were already occupied and you were able to place nothing!) Does that make sense?

On the face of it, the play you described doesn't seem quite balanced... that you can place up to three tiles in one turn versus only two aquaducts or one wel... But as I think about our games, it's no wonder so few tiles got placed, and people opted to build aquaducts nearly as often as they chose to build.... which of course, ended the game quite quickly! So the way you described should balance this much better.

Funny how from that one comment I was able to catch this! You are a game designer, I see, from your avatar. Were you involved in this game design at all? Either way, thanks for this example... which is just one of the things I appreciate about the BGG community!

With your correction and I sure want to try this game again and see what happens! My strategy of playing my "one's" first never paid off, but it seems it sure could now!

Also, getting booted out of the game for "area full" sure is a big penalty to look out for! Not like it happened to me or anything...whistle

 
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Tomello Visello
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house14 wrote:
Well, thanks for spelling that out! It certainly isn't clear from the rule book. To me, it's just as likely interpreted as "up to three roles... if needed (because the first two areas were already occupied and you were able to place nothing!) Does that make sense?
Well, let's just look at what the rules say, then.

The player may roll the die up to three times per turn. For each die roll, the player may put one house tile on a free field, in the area, of the number shown on the die. ...If there is no free field left in the area, the player may re-roll the die.

If a player decides not to place a house in an area, after one of his die rolls, his turn is over.


I don't find it unclear. You roll up to 3 times, you build up to 3 times. The turn ends in fewer than 3 rolls if you don't like the valid opportunity the die gives. An invalid roll does not count toward your 3 available.

 
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Jeff Shoot
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TVis wrote:
house14 wrote:
Well, thanks for spelling that out! It certainly isn't clear from the rule book. To me, it's just as likely interpreted as "up to three roles... if needed (because the first two areas were already occupied and you were able to place nothing!) Does that make sense?
Well, let's just look at what the rules say, then.

The player may roll the die up to three times per turn. For each die roll, the player may put one house tile on a free field, in the area, of the number shown on the die. ...If there is no free field left in the area, the player may re-roll the die.

If a player decides not to place a house in an area, after one of his die rolls, his turn is over.


I don't find it unclear. You roll up to 3 times, you build up to 3 times. The turn ends in fewer than 3 rolls if you don't like the valid opportunity the die gives. An invalid roll does not count toward your 3 available.



Ok, since you kindly took the time to spell it out, I read through it again, and it's interesting to see how differently thing can read. For example, this sentence:

"If there is no free field left in the area, the player may re-roll the die."

Try, if you will, to see with the bold emphases, how that could be interpreted to imply, quite simply, that if there is a free field left, the player is NOT entitled to re-roll the die!


Even the "up to three roles" would not necessarily mean you could place three times in one turn, but could imply that at the end of the game, as fields fill up, you could end of re-rolling, but only three times. (After that, you're out of luck!)


The only detail that implies otherwise, is the word "each" in "for each die roll..." Now I'm thinking, "How did I miss the word "each"??!

But you try learning and explaining a game to three kids anxious to play immediately and get them all straight!

Actually, your interpretation makes the most sense, now that I read it that way... that you still get three "good" rolls. But you state it much more clearly by saying "An invalid roll does not count toward your 3 available," Alas, the rules are not as clear as you...)

Anyway, this is like one of those illusion drawings... once you see it the "right" way, it seems almost like "how can anyone NOT see what I'm seeing??" So I don't know if you can see how I was getting to my wrong conclusion... Either way, thanks for the correction.


 
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Randall Bart
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house14 wrote:
"If there is no free field left in the area, the player may re-roll the die."

Try, if you will, to see with the bold emphases, how that could be interpreted to imply, quite simply, that if there is a free field left, the player is NOT entitled to re-roll the die!


Right. You may not reroll your first roll unless the area is full. You may not reroll your second roll unless the area is full. You may not reroll your third roll unless the area is full.
 
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