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Subject: Easy Way to Incorporate Everything into One Game rss

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Most of Arkham Horror is easy to put together, but the main thing that gets "lost" in the shuffle are the Mythos cards, the flavor cards of Arkham Horror, so to speak. There are two methods I've come up with, both very easy to implement.

1) Seperate the Mythos cards from every expansion.
2) Place the original Arkham Horror & Kingsport Mythos cards into one deck (we shall call it Deck 1).
3) Place ALL the mini-expansion Mythos cards into one deck (Pharaoh, Yellow King & Black Goat become Deck 2).
4) Place Dunwich and Innsmouth Mythos cards together (we shall call this Deck 3).

Method 1: Roll a die every Mythos Phase. 1-2, draw from deck 1. 3-4, draw from deck 2. 5-6, draw from deck 3.

Method 2: Each Mythos Phase, change decks - deck 1 for initial Mythos, deck 2 for 2nd Mythos, 3rd deck for 3rd, and back to 1st deck for 4th, etc.

***

This system works very well because the majority of action will still be on the main board, but there is a good chance that you will see Gates open in Dunwich or Innsmouth which is important for a fun and challenging game. When everything is shuffled into ONE deck, you hardly ever see the mini-expansion stories, and often nothing ever happens in Dunwich or Insmouth because of the # of Mythos cards you get from Arkham, Kingsport and the 3 mini-expansions.

Method 2 is awesome BUT you will know when something might open in Dunwich or Innsmouth (since they are all in deck 3). Method 1 is the best way, but it IS random, so if you throw a ton of 1's or 2's you'll see mostly stuff from the original Arkham Mythos deck as well.

But give it a shot for the FULL Arkham Horror experience! Let me know how it turns out.
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Henrik Spalk
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Interesting, I will probably try this next time...
 
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Gijs Bouwman
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I believe method # 1 has been talked about before on the Geek (I believe it was mr. Skeletor, but I'm not sure). I have used it ever since and it works great.
For some reason there was always one mini expasion that was dominand. So you get a nice theme thru out the game.
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Dennis Gadgaard
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I like this game and have been worried about dilution of events too, so I thought I'd throw the math around for a bit. I know something similar has been discussed in another thread, but I wanted to examine these specific methods, because at first glance I like the idea.

Method 0: All Mythos cards in a big deck; I think the big problem here is getting it shuffled thoroughly as it gets a bit unwieldy with all expansions, but assuming that true randomness can be achieved the probabilities of drawing a card from the respective sets are:

AH 28.9%, DP 7.9%, DH 15.8%, KY 11.8%, KH 9.6%, BG 10.1%, IH 15.8% (.1% lost in time and space )

Method 1: Assuming the respective decks are shuffled to perfection as well, the method is still completely random, even as we enter the realm of conditional probabilities:

AH 25.0%, DP 8.8%, DH 16.7%, KY 13.2%, KH 8.3%, BG 11.3%, IH 16.7%

So AH and KH cards gets a little less probable and the rest a little more; the largest increase goes to KY, BG and DP.
From the math alone I don't think the method should change that much actually; if it does I think the problem of shuffling 229 cards is the main cause. However since the probabilities are so similar, method 1 for me becomes an interesting alternative for easier and speedier shuffling whilst basically preserving the original probabilities (at least moving a few percentages to the cards I have seen less due to them being newer is no disaster )

Method 2: Basically this looks like a way of cutting down the variance, but interesting if you want specific expansions exposed. You make sure that more expansions are seen, but as you say but you know when something will happen where. I wonder how big an impact that will have on player deciscions. Exposing specific expansions... Imagine: Deck 1 AH+KH, Deck 2 DP+BG, Deck 3 DH+IH, Deck 4 KY.
Here The King in Yellow gets special treatment and should show itself more. Method 2 as it stands should be very well balanced.

On a final note, I think it would be interesting to see if your mix of the sets into three decks are optimal with respect to the original probabilities or there is a mix that fits closer; probably not with just three decks though.
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Dennis Gadgaard
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For whom it might interest... the continuation of my final note

Since method 1 was just as random yet more managable in terms of shuffling I wanted to see how it could be optimized so to preserve the original probabilities best (if indeed that is what one would want).

The deck of all Mythos cards contain 228 cards (I didn't count "The Story Continues"), so if you were to make a number of decks and randomize between them using dice the individual deck should contain as large a fraction of the 228 cards as the probability of rolling that deck; example - chosing a deck on 1-2 on a d6 ( 1/3 ) should ideally contain a third of the cards = 76.

The decks in the original Method 1 each have 1/3 chance of getting chosen, and contains 88, 68 and 72 cards respectively, so AH+KH got slightly less probable because there were 12 cards more than the ideal number.

Now lets see; if you have a deck chosen on a 1/2 chance it should ideally contain 114 cards, 1/3 is 76 cards, 1/4 is 57 cards and 1/6 is 38 cards.
The sets contain; AH 66, DP 18, DH 36, KY 27, KH 22, BG 23, IH 36

With 3 decks as in Method 1 you can make a closer fit by combining; AH+DP (84), KY,KH,BG (72) and DH+IH (72) (basically switch DP and KH).

With 2 decks you can get really close to ideal sizes; AH+KY+KH (115) and DH+IH+BG+DP (113).

At 66 cards, AH doesn't fit in decks with less than 1/3 chance and having an asymmetrical distribution probably defeats the purpose of ease; if you have one big deck you chose from on 1-3 and three smaller that are chose on 4,5 and 6 respectively, then why not just have two big decks?

I think I'll have to try these two versions and see how they handle.
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Tibs
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My "Anti-Dilution" variant doesn't deal with the even spread of theme in the Mythos deck so much (I consider the Arkham Encounters and OW encounters to be a strong propagator of theme), but it handles the Innsmouth/Dunwich/Next Act issue extremely well.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/409096
 
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Dennis Gadgaard
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I'm not sure I would call it Anti-Dilution, because what you are really doing is re-prioritize the dilution. That's not saying I don't like the idea; I think it's a neat way of changing the flow of the Mythos to reflect the kind of game you want, in this case as many gate openings in Dunwich and Innsmouth and Next Acts as had you used those expansions only.

The dilution hits the rest of the cards though; I used 'chose the special deck on 3+ on d6' instead of 11- on 3d6, but it's close enough for the point I wish to make...

Chose deck on d6:3+

Opening gate in Dunwich 2/3 * 25/64 = 26,0% (AH+DH 24,5%)
Opening gate in Innsmouth 2/3 * 33/64 = 34,4% (AH+IH 32,4%)
Next Act 2/3 * 6/64 = 6,3% (AH+KY 6,5%)

The 'Base' deck will contain the remaining 164 cards:

Adding two terror levels 1/3 * 1/164 = 0,2% (AH+KY 0,7%, ALL 0,4%)
Adding two doom tokens 1/3 * 11/164 = 2,2% (ALL 4,8%)
Monster surge 1/3 * 6/164 = 1,2% (ALL 2,6%)
Opening gate in Arkham 1/3 * 146/164 = 29,7% (AH+DH 75,5%, AH+IH 64,7%, ALL 64,0%)

So compared to using all Mythos cards in one deck your variant reduces everything else to slightly less than half it's original probability; it makes sense, there is only 100% to go around and if you make something more probable, something else becomes less probable.
If you want to move some gate action away from Arkham into Dunwich and Innsmouth then this is the way to go, however there is one unfortunate sideeffect; the Innsmouth Deep One track will become much easier, since less than half of the previous gates will try to and potentially not open in Arkham.

I wonder what the designer's thoughts are on the Mythos dilution, but going through the expansions progressively it seems he's tried to keep the gate openings in Arkham fairly consistent, at least until IH.

I do like the fact that given a bit of deck tweaking, you can shift the Mythos flow to focus more or less on the locations you want for your game or as many before have pointed out, just use AH+IH if you want a Innsmouth oriented game.
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Jon W
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Is there a list somewhere with all the mythos cards on it, including details (set it comes from, gate, event, clue, etc.)? I'm sure it's around, just can't seem to find it....
 
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Why don't some of you guys TRY it out first, and then post results? Lots of calculations going on, but its very simple - approximately 2/3rds of the time you're going to see stuff in Arkham (or even more!), with these split decks you have a larger chance of Gates opening in Dunwich/Innsmouth.

I'm even messing with a tweak that modifies the dice roll the longer things open in Arkham so that eventually there is a larger probability of something opening up on one of the other boards.
 
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Jon W
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SanguinousRex wrote:
Why don't some of you guys TRY it out first, and then post results?

Well, the math is the math: your variant is nice in that it moves things in the right direction, but it's only a nudge. Unlike kungfro's "anti-dilution" variant, which weights everything heavily toward the expansion boards (and which I am playing now).

For my tastes, the best approach will be somewhere in the middle.

EDIT: I crunched some numbers and came up with my own variant, which is, indeed, in the middle.
 
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I'm going to be hosting a Arkham game tomorrow and planning to use the variant I came up with above, but with one additional tweak - on the first of the 3 decks I will have a red stone which will make it the "main" deck - the main deck will always be 1-3. The deck to the right of it will be 4-5 and the deck to the right of that (or if there is no deck, the first deck) will be a 6.

So, for example, turn 1 I roll a die, 4.

Turn 1: 1-3 is Arkham/Kingsport, 4-5 is Arkham small box expansions, 6 is Dunwich/Innsmouth - so the initial Mythos phase is drawn from the small box expansion deck. After the mythos phase is completed, the stone will move, and is now on the 2nd deck.

Turn 2: so now 6 is Arkham/Kingsport, 1-3 is small-box, 4-5 is Dunwich/Innsmouth.

Turn 3: Mythos phase, stone moves - 4-5 Arkham/Kingsport, 6 small-box, 1-3 Dunwich/Innsmouth.

Turn 4: Back to 1-3 Arkham/Kingsport, 4-5 small box, 6 Dunwich/Innsmouth.

Repeat, with the stone moving each round. This always gives a random flair to the card draw, but also gives you a higher chance of having a Gate pop up in Dunwich/Innsmouth as well.

Anyway, going to give it a try!
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