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Subject: Will there be more new Intrigue cards on BSW? rss

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John Stine
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Sorry if this question has already been addressed but does anyone here know if any more new Intrigue cards will be added to the BSW version of Dominion? I'm really digging developing strategies with the new ones, so I'm chomping at the bit to see some more!
 
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Greg Payne
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Unlikely. Someone (was that you, Dale?) said in a post that they were going to offer some cards from the set to BSW, but that there were no plans to offer the entire set.
 
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John Clark
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Word is only those five cards will grace BSW.

And I can't resist: whistle

If someone is eager or anxious to do something, they are said to be champing at the bit, (not chomping at the bit. nor chomping on the bit).
CHAMPING: Repetitious, strong opening and closing action of the mouth which
produces sounds when the teeth hit together. Champing in swine may be a
threat signal, but also is performed by boars during courtship and
mating. Definition from Hurnik et al., 1995.

- The Encyclopedia of Farm Animal Behavior

champ
v. tr. - To bite or chew upon noisily.
v. intr. - To work the jaws and teeth vigorously.
Idiom: - champ at the bit
To show impatience at being held back or delayed.

- The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Note that some dictionaries define chomp as being derived from champ. One especially lazy on-line dictionary simply links chomp to the definition for champ, thereby negligently implying that they're identical. The Miriam-Webster entry for champ at points out that while the verb chomp is a transitive verb, the verb champ can be either transitive or intransitive. In particular, the verb in the expression champing at the bit is intransitive, so it would be ungrammatical to say chomping at the bit (since chomp, being a transitive verb, needs an object); you could say chomping the bit instead, but that really lacks the impact of champing at the bit.
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dale yu
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Lardarse wrote:
Unlikely. Someone (was that you, Dale?) said in a post that they were going to offer some cards from the set to BSW, but that there were no plans to offer the entire set.


Well, I don't know what you've read or not - but I can confirm that at this point there are no plans to bring more cards from Intrigue to BSW.

Thanks
Dale
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Laurence Parsons
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Carl Ramrod wrote:
Word is only those five cards will grace BSW.

And I can't resist: whistle

If someone is eager or anxious to do something, they are said to be champing at the bit, (not chomping at the bit. nor chomping on the bit).
CHAMPING: Repetitious, strong opening and closing action of the mouth which
produces sounds when the teeth hit together. Champing in swine may be a
threat signal, but also is performed by boars during courtship and
mating. Definition from Hurnik et al., 1995.

- The Encyclopedia of Farm Animal Behavior

champ
v. tr. - To bite or chew upon noisily.
v. intr. - To work the jaws and teeth vigorously.
Idiom: - champ at the bit
To show impatience at being held back or delayed.

- The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
Note that some dictionaries define chomp as being derived from champ. One especially lazy on-line dictionary simply links chomp to the definition for champ, thereby negligently implying that they're identical. The Miriam-Webster entry for champ at points out that while the verb chomp is a transitive verb, the verb champ can be either transitive or intransitive. In particular, the verb in the expression champing at the bit is intransitive, so it would be ungrammatical to say chomping at the bit (since chomp, being a transitive verb, needs an object); you could say chomping the bit instead, but that really lacks the impact of champing at the bit.

Chump!
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Hm, I guess there won't be more cards, if only because Intrigue needs to sell well.
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Joshua Deacon
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Mythdracon wrote:
Hm, I guess there won't be more cards, if only because Intrigue needs to sell well. :P


All the cards being on BW would not stop me from buying it, it would only help me practice for Gen-Con tournament play. In fact, in my small gaming group of 10 people, 4 of us own copies of the games and everyone is planning on buying the expansion. I heard a possible reason for the lack of extra cards might be the cost of getting them added to the site. Maybe we BSW players could donate a little cash to getting some more cards put up if the people at Rio Grande were willing. I'm sure there are enough players out there willing to donate a little more cash to this fun game.

-jd
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Bruce Wigdor
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Wow, what a disappointment that they won't be programmed. I probably won't buy Intrigue now.
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Dave Daley
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brucewig wrote:
Wow, what a disappointment that they won't be programmed. I probably won't buy Intrigue now.

Since *almost* everyone agrees that the BSW experience is far inferior to the awesomeness of Dominion F2F, I think you are limiting your own fun.

Your statement sounds like the king of thing someone would say if they had no intention of buying the game under any circumstances. I think if you had Dominion and played F2F, playing on BSW is a mere shadow of that experience, and like *almost* the rest of us, you'd probably already be waiting for your Intrigue pre-order to arrive....

THen again, to each his own....

(edited to add an "almost" or two)
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Dave Daley
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jsrdeacon wrote:
Mythdracon wrote:
Hm, I guess there won't be more cards, if only because Intrigue needs to sell well.


All the cards being on BW would not stop me from buying it, it would only help me practice for Gen-Con tournament play. In fact, in my small gaming group of 10 people, 4 of us own copies of the games and everyone is planning on buying the expansion. I heard a possible reason for the lack of extra cards might be the cost of getting them added to the site. Maybe we BSW players could donate a little cash to getting some more cards put up if the people at Rio Grande were willing. I'm sure there are enough players out there willing to donate a little more cash to this fun game.

-jd

I wouldn't pay to support that unholy interface. I don't think it does them any good really - it lets us hardcore games play for free, but there is no way in hell that the everyday user is going to
a) come across bsw
b) set up an account.
c) learn semi-german to get to the game.

I've set up enough friends and relatives to know that this is *NOT* a user-friendly site in any way. Seriously, I set up a few MAC users on BSW. I can still hear them laughing.

It was mentioned (by Jay I think) that there is some consideration of Rio Grande making their own online implementation of Dominion. Now THAT I would support.
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Peter Stein
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elkabong wrote:
brucewig wrote:
Wow, what a disappointment that they won't be programmed. I probably won't buy Intrigue now.

Since *almost* everyone agrees that the BSW experience is far inferior to the awesomeness of Dominion F2F, I think you are limiting your own fun.

Your statement sounds like the king of thing someone would say if they had no intention of buying the game under any circumstances. I think if you had Dominion and played F2F, playing on BSW is a mere shadow of that experience, and like *almost* the rest of us, you'd probably already be waiting for your Intrigue pre-order to arrive....

THen again, to each his own....

(edited to add an "almost" or two)


On the contrary, I think that Dominion on BSW is so good (no shuffling, no action or money counting, etc.) that it makes perfect business sense to limit what cards go on there.

If you want a taste you can play it on BSW, if you want the full experience well you're going to have to buy something.
 
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Jennifer Schlickbernd
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yudp wrote:
Lardarse wrote:
Unlikely. Someone (was that you, Dale?) said in a post that they were going to offer some cards from the set to BSW, but that there were no plans to offer the entire set.


Well, I don't know what you've read or not - but I can confirm that at this point there are no plans to bring more cards from Intrigue to BSW.

Thanks
Dale


Would you consider rotating them in and out from time to time? I understand the presumed sales concerns but it would be nice for the playable list to change from time to time.
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dale yu
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jschlickbernd wrote:
yudp wrote:
Lardarse wrote:
Unlikely. Someone (was that you, Dale?) said in a post that they were going to offer some cards from the set to BSW, but that there were no plans to offer the entire set.


Well, I don't know what you've read or not - but I can confirm that at this point there are no plans to bring more cards from Intrigue to BSW.

Thanks
Dale


Would you consider rotating them in and out from time to time? I understand the presumed sales concerns but it would be nice for the playable list to change from time to time.


Again, it's not my decision to ultimately make, but as it stands now, the 5 cards that are currently available will be the only 5 Intrigue cards on BSW. There will be no switching or rotating as it stands now.

Thanks
Dale
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Chef D
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Thanks Donald..... sorry I mean Dale.
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Dave Daley
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Bordgamer wrote:


On the contrary, I think that Dominion on BSW is so good (no shuffling, no action or money counting, etc.) that it makes perfect business sense to limit what cards go on there.

If you want a taste you can play it on BSW, if you want the full experience well you're going to have to buy something.


I never said the game itself on BSW was horrible. I was saying that the interface is an abomination total shite poor, and that it does very little to generate interest (or sales) from the general population.

Not shuffling .. I don't mind the shuffling, but I can see where you might not like it. On the other hand, while I am willing to concede that shuffling is a bit of a drawback, many BSW supporters seem unwilling to admit that it is a *FAR* inferior gaming experience when compared to the Face-to-Face game, which is simply stellar.

Which leads me to ask this : Why would the developer spend time and money on this interface, when it isn't going to give players a great experience, and make them want to buy the game? Promotion has to achieve an end - Sales, increased interest in the GENERAL GAMING PUBLIC etc.. I think that the 20,000 posts in Dominions BGG forums tell us that there is no need to generate interest or sales amongst us hard-core games
 
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Bruce Wigdor
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>Your statement sounds like the king of thing someone would say if they had no intention of buying the game under any circumstances.

This isn't true. I own the original copy of Dominion. I even paid a premium for the copy since the game is out of print (I think about $60-$70.

I program boardgame translations myself similar to BSW but for more complex games (generally wargames: www.wargameroom.com), so I believe very strongly in purchasing a copy of a game if you play it on line regularly. I believe in supporting game companies who allow their games to be translated.

As for BSW vs. ftf, I think they both have advantages. I really like the quickness of BSW and the elimination of set up and take down. I don't feel the game suffers on BSW at all. On the other hand, ftf play is in some ways more fun; just being in the same room as the other players and getting to use the components is quite enjoyable.

But the bottom line is that I have played more than 100 games of Dominion on BSW and fewer than 10 ftf. Most of my gaming is done on line. It would not be worth it for me to buy Dominion: Intrigue if I'm only going to play it ftf, because my ftf gaming partners have many plays of the basic game to play before they move on to the Intrigue cards, which are apparently a bit trickier. I might never use Intrigue ftf, but I would nonetheless buy it if I were playing regularly on BSW. Again, I believe we should support the game companies that are tolerant with respect to on-line translations.

I have no problem if BSW delays adding the new cards to promote early sales of the physical copy of the game. But if they're never going to do them, I probably won't be buying my own copy, unless my ftf gaming friends (who are not as serious about boardgames as I am) really become hooked on the basic game.
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brucewig wrote:
>I have no problem if BSW delays adding the new cards to promote early sales of the physical copy of the game. But if they're never going to do them, I probably won't be buying my own copy, unless my ftf gaming friends (who are not as serious about boardgames as I am) really become hooked on the basic game.


But just so I understand your logic - if BSW did have all the Intrigue cards, then you'd be more likely to buy a physical copy?
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elkabong wrote:
Bordgamer wrote:


On the contrary, I think that Dominion on BSW is so good (no shuffling, no action or money counting, etc.) that it makes perfect business sense to limit what cards go on there.

If you want a taste you can play it on BSW, if you want the full experience well you're going to have to buy something.


I never said the game itself on BSW was horrible. I was saying that the interface is an abomination total shite poor, and that it does very little to generate interest (or sales) from the general population.

Not shuffling .. I don't mind the shuffling, but I can see where you might not like it. On the other hand, while I am willing to concede that shuffling is a bit of a drawback, many BSW supporters seem unwilling to admit that it is a *FAR* inferior gaming experience when compared to the Face-to-Face game, which is simply stellar.

Which leads me to ask this : Why would the developer spend time and money on this interface, when it isn't going to give players a great experience, and make them want to buy the game? Promotion has to achieve an end - Sales, increased interest in the GENERAL GAMING PUBLIC etc.. I think that the 20,000 posts in Dominions BGG forums tell us that there is no need to generate interest or sales amongst us hard-core games


If your point is the interface could be better and might increase sales if it was, I agree. Though on the BSW scale it's not that bad.

If your point was BSW as it is was generating little interest or sales, I think you're waaaaaaaaay off. Based on what people were saying at Origins, playing it on BSW was making people looking forward to buying Intrigue even more.

I see Bruce Widgor's thinking, but for every person like him, I think there's a lot more who can't get enough.
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Peter Stein
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brucewig wrote:
>I have no problem if BSW delays adding the new cards to promote early sales of the physical copy of the game. But if they're never going to do them, I probably won't be buying my own copy, unless my ftf gaming friends (who are not as serious about boardgames as I am) really become hooked on the basic game.


Bruce, maybe I'm missing something, but if I had a ftf group who wasn't as serious about boardgames, I'd be showing them Dominion ASAP. I would think this is something they would go for.
 
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Bruce Wigdor
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I've been showing Dominion to anyone who will play it with me, Pete. My "ftf group" would best be described as some friends and family who will every now and then play a game with me.

One glimpse of hope is that my brother really liked it when I showed it to him. We played it twice, and afterwards, just as I was ready to pack the game up, he asked if I wanted to play it again.

My brother's reaction is a great sign, but unless we start playing the game regularly, there isn't much reason for me to buy Intrigue. The only reason I really have for buying the game is to be consistent with my principle of owning any game I play regularly on line.
 
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Bruce Wigdor
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>But just so I understand your logic - if BSW did have all the Intrigue cards, then you'd be more likely to buy a physical copy?

Yes, that is my logic, as illogical as it seems, for reasons I mentioned above.

This backwards logic is similar to my decision to purchase Valley Games's remake of Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage. Valley Games could have been greedy and changed the game in hopes of making everyone buy it all over again. But they would have ruined a classic game had they done that. Instead, they did a service to the hobby and kept the game almost exactly the same.

I didn't want this excellent decision by Valley Games to hurt their sales, and therefore decided to buy the game, precisely because they didn't force me to do so.

So my game buying is somewhat quirky, but there is a method to the madness. :-)
 
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Bordgamer wrote:


If your point is the interface could be better and might increase sales if it was, I agree. Though on the BSW scale it's not that bad.

If your point was BSW as it is was generating little interest or sales, I think you're waaaaaaaaay off. Based on what people were saying at Origins, playing it on BSW was making people looking forward to buying Intrigue even more.

I see Bruce Widgor's thinking, but for every person like him, I think there's a lot more who can't get enough.


LOL.. I am afraid you are making MY point! People who visit Origins, People who are BGG regulars - these are people who already will own Dominion. There is little to be gained by offering them more on BSW.

The other half of my point was that BSW is nigh unusable for the "average joe", who might be converted into a Dominion-lover. I have "sold" several copies of Dominion for Rio Grande from the dozens of people I have played with F2F. I can honestly say that of the dozens of people I set up with BSW accounts - TWO of them have current accounts - and I am one of the two.

Why promote on a broken medium? I'd personally rather they save the money they would spend on BSW and consider building their own Dominion server. I think this game could be great online - it just ISN'T great the way it sits, and I'm not sure I see why they would pay to put more of Intrigue online in the current form.
 
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elkabong wrote:
The other half of my point was that BSW is nigh unusable for the "average joe", who might be converted into a Dominion-lover. I have "sold" several copies of Dominion for Rio Grande from the dozens of people I have played with F2F. I can honestly say that of the dozens of people I set up with BSW accounts - TWO of them have current accounts - and I am one of the two.

You "average joe" seems to be somebody who already knows about Dominion, and wants to try it before he buys.

The are many thousand people on BSW (especially german ones) who aren't BGG regulars. People who actually didn't hear about Dominion before they saw it on BSW. The point is moot now that Dominion won SdJ - now even casual gamers will get to know the game. But if i look at Säulen der Erde (Pillars of the Earth), i think BSW played a big role in making it widely known.

Regarding the expansion, i think it was a good strategy by Hans im Glück / RGG. It shows people who already like the game that there is an expansion with new interesting card types; but to get to know all the cards, (average) people will have to buy the game.
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Dave Daley
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I am afraid the BSW experience is much different (better) for people who speak German.
 
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Bruce Wigdor
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I speak English only, but far from being a "broken meduium," I think that the interface on BSW for Dominion is outstanding. I enjoy getting twice as many games played in the same amount of my gaming time. I enjoy not having to sort the cards after every game. I enjoy not having to shuffle the cards.

I'm not saying BSW or other on-line gaming sites are better than face to face; they're just different. Because of the time factor, I myself prefer doing most of my gaming online, with some ftf gaming on special occasions.
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