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Subject: Why use money at all? rss

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Neal Rosen
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Wimauma
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I just finished playing my first game of Vikings (the base game) which I enjoyed very much. However, it seems to me that using the money that comes with the game is totally unnecessary.

If I understood the rules correctly, there is no way during the base game that you can earn money. If that is true then your money therefore, will probably run out by the third or fourth round. Thereafter, you either buy the zero value set or you spend victory points as currency at a 1 to 1 ratio.

The liklihood then that a player will have enough gold at the end of the game to convert back into victory points seems very small to me.

If all this is true, then wouldn't it just be simplier to start everyone on the victory point track at a higher total value equal to 10 plus the amount of gold the instructions say to use and then, as in many other games, just use the victory point track for accumulating points and spending money?

Is there something in the advanced version of the game that changes the way money is used and earned that would argue in favor of using the coins?
 
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Joe Rickard
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I think you missed some rules. The yellow vikings (I don't remember what they are called) will earn you 3 coins after odd and even rounds. Also ships that are defended against can earn you 2 or 3 coins, on even rounds, depending on the ship. These are all in the basic game.
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Get up, get up, get up, get down, fall over.
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quartersmostly wrote:
The yellow vikings (I don't remember what they are called)
Goldsmiths

quartersmostly wrote:
Also ships that are defended against can earn you 2 5 or 3 coins, on even rounds, depending on the ship. These are all in the basic game.
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Neal Rosen
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Thanks for the clarification; I must have missed those rules. But, given the relatively small amount of money earned in these cases, again, why not simply do away with the gold and just use victory points for both points and cash?
 
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Craig Liken
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Not sure that the amount you earn is trivial - 3 goldsmiths for example will bring in 9 gold per round. The ship defence values are 3 and 5 coins as well.

I think the game is about managing your money - sometimes you need a specific set and may have to pay 7 or 8 for it. Also with no money in the game some of the strategywould go. Eg it is a legitimate stategy to use up all you gold and from then on you must take the cheapest set.
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Joe Rickard
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Thanks for the correction Chris H. I didn't have the game in front of me and it had been a while since I had played.

@ OP

If you play the advanced game money is also a bigger deal as you can get modifiers to your goldsmiths to increase your earnings.
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Mike Wong
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nmrosen wrote:
Thanks for the clarification; I must have missed those rules. But, given the relatively small amount of money earned in these cases, again, why not simply do away with the gold and just use victory points for both points and cash?


Like Craig said, it's possible to make a lot of money. Having 3 goldsmiths + 2 '5 coin' ships = 19 coins, which is no small amount.

But to answer your main question, 1 coin does NOT equal 1 victory point. You may give up 1 point to get 1 coin during the game, but at the end of the game, every 5 coins you have equal 1 point. Therefore, you cannot just use victory points for both points and cash.
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Breno K.
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Using VP for money is a desperate move, should be done only under very specific moments.
 
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Get up, get up, get up, get down, fall over.
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BrenoK wrote:
Using VP for money is a desperate move, should be done only under very specific moments.
I would not agree with the first half of this statement, I do it for one or two points in maybe 1/3 of the games I play (and I have a pretty good win record), but I certainly with the second.

In one extreme example a few months ago, it was my first turn in the final round. Both my opponents needed a left hand end of an island and there was only one available, far round the wheel. I had no hesitation in cashing in a load (6, 8?) of victory points to get it because it cost my opponents far more than that and ultimately won me the game.

liken@xtra.co.nz wrote:
I think the game is about managing your money - sometimes you need a specific set and may have to pay 7 or 8 for it. Also with no money in the game some of the strategywould go. Eg it is a legitimate stategy to use up all you gold and from then on you must take the cheapest set.
Absolutely. You have a choice between loading up on ships and goldsmiths (for few victory points) so you can grab the choice sets as you go on, or to manage on a very tight budget in the hope of raking in the VPs with what you pick up. I forget what you start with, is it 20 coins? In a 4p game you make 18 purchases (24 in a 3p). That means a lot of 0 value and 1 value purchases unless you gather extra money.

And yes, I can attest that the strategy to use up all your gold is a very powerful one if you spot that you need the first one in each group of colours. You force your opponents to spend big to grab them at a high price or let you take them free. I have been on the wrong side of this strategy only once and it hurts.
 
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Don Sikes
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Speaking of money---is money hidden or visible for all players to see? Thanks.
 
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Russ Williams
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Fardog wrote:
Speaking of money---is money hidden or visible for all players to see? Thanks.

Given that transactions are public and the rules don't say money is hidden (at least I didn't notice any such rule), we play with it visible.

It is of course a frequent discussion topic at BGG whether publicly trackable stuff (like money in many games) should be hidden or not, and some people prefer to play with it hidden in such cases where the rules don't define it.
 
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Mike Wong
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Fardog wrote:
Speaking of money---is money hidden or visible for all players to see? Thanks.


Based on the coins provided by the game, I think you can choose to put your coin value side face-down to hide your money values and even stack them. But it seems the coins themselves need to be visible in order for all other players to see and agree that you have 0 money and can then take the 0 set regardless if there are more vikings of the same color on 0.
 
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Craig Liken
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I think money needs to be visible - a good part of this game is working out what others can afford and what they can't (without sacrificing victory points).
 
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Mike Mestemaker
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nmrosen wrote:
I just finished playing my first game of Vikings (the base game) which I enjoyed very much. However, it seems to me that using the money that comes with the game is totally unnecessary.


I also just played this for the first time and was wondering just the opposite. I was wondering what this game would be like without victory points. i.e. if everything that would earn you points earned you money instead and the victory condition was who had the most money at the end.

Probably need to rebalance all of the amounts, but besides that I think it would work and simplify things a bit.
 
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