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Subject: Taint of Evil epic battle questions rss

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Chris Franka
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The Taint of Evil epic battle card states that "each die rolled by the investigators this round receives a -1 penalty to its result (e.g. a roll of 5 becomes a 4)."

The Ancient One then attacks as normal.

A couple of questions:

1) Do the dice that the investigators roll during the Ancient One's attack also have 1 subtracted from all of them, or is it just during the investigators' attacks? We played it as just the investigators' attacks were -1, but then, looking in the rulebooks to figure out what 'this round' actually means, I found this:

Quote:
Sometimes the Ancient One attacks first, and rarely, only one side or the other will get to attack during a round.
(Kingsport Rulebook, p. 11 under Epic Battle Variant/Gameplay.)

So, if a round were only the Investigator's attack, or only the Ancient One's attack, then the idea that only one side or the other could attack during a round would be redundant, since I'm already using ONLY one side's attack to define a 'round' in this hypothetical case. Therefore, a 'round' must refer to the ENTIRE CARD (both the investigators' attack and the Ancient One's attack). Therefore, the -1 should affect the investigators' rolls during the Ancient One's attack on that card, even though the effect is only written on the part of the card that is headed by the words "Investigators Attack," right?

2) The shotgun scores 2 successes when a 6 is rolled. If you roll a 6 with a shotgun while Taint of Evil is played, does the 6 still count as 2 successes because a 6 "is rolled," or does the 6 become a 5, meaning the shotgun only gets one success?
 
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brian
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1) A "round" is the entire battle meaning both the investigators and the GOO attacks (and upkeep as well - see page 22 in the original rule book for a defintiion of a "round"). So with this card, all dice rolled by investigators go down by 1. That means during their attack and the GOO's attack if they have dice-rolling requirements.

2) Shotgun only works if you roll a 6. With this Epic battle card, all 6's become 5's. So they shotgun wouldn't work this turn unless you had something that added a pip back. Can't think of anything like that off the top of my head though.
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Charles Simon
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Quote:
So, if a round were only the Investigator's attack, or only the Ancient One's attack, then the idea that only one side or the other could attack during a round would be redundant, since I'm already using ONLY one side's attack to define a 'round' in this hypothetical case. Therefore, a 'round' must refer to the ENTIRE CARD (both the investigators' attack and the Ancient One's attack). Therefore, the -1 should affect the investigators' rolls during the Ancient One's attack on that card, even though the effect is only written on the part of the card that is headed by the words "Investigators Attack," right?



Silly mortal... You act like the game might want you to win. The game doesn't want you to win. It wants you to die. Horribly. But only after forcing you to watch all of your friends die first. Horribly.

Though in mechanics terms, "Taint of Evil" says "each die rolled by the investigators receives a -1 penalty" (emphasis mine). I think the interpretation of this is that only the dice rolled for the investigators (spells, items, attacks, etc.) are effected. When rolling dice for the GOO, it is the players rolling the dice for it. I would read it as the GOO is unaffected by the "Taint of Evil".


Quote:
The shotgun scores 2 successes when a 6 is rolled. If you roll a 6 with a shotgun while Taint of Evil is played, does the 6 still count as 2 successes because a 6 "is rolled," or does the 6 become a 5, meaning the shotgun only gets one success?


Again, I would err on the side that the game's intent is trying to break your soul and feast on your innards and go with 6's are 5's and therefore shotguns are not able to get the bonus successes.


Combat against a GOO is deadly and horrific, especially with the Epic Battle cards. If you hit the point of the GOO awakening, chances are, you are going to lose, but you have a slight chance of pulling out against the odds. But, for the most part, it is simply a brief tour to see in which order you and all of your friends die.
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Chris Franka
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
1) A "round" is the entire battle meaning both the investigators and the GOO attacks (and upkeep as well - see page 22 in the original rule book for a defintiion of a "round"). So with this card, all dice rolled by investigators go down by 1. That means during their attack and the GOO's attack if they have dice-rolling requirements.


However, just for the sake of clarity, even though a round includes the Upkeep phase, this specific card would not modify dice rolls during the Upkeep phase since the card is not actually revealed until after the Upkeep phase is completed. So it would only affect dice rolls used during the investigator attack and Ancient One attack...which is exactly what you said, Brian--I'm just clarifying. Thanks as always for the quick response.
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Chris Franka
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thinwhiteduke wrote:
When rolling dice for the GOO, it is the players rolling the dice for it.


Not always. We played Nyharlop...Nyhalrhr...Nyarlathotep. His attack is that the investigators must pass a Lore check or lose a clue token. So I'd interpret that as the investigators rolling the dice, since they're the ones that need to make pass the skill check, even though it's the Ancient One's attack that is prompting the check.

But I agree with the spirit of your reply.
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brian
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The Upkeep would be before the card is drawn (as outlined in the KH rules) so it would not be affectd by this card as it would be over before this card was drawn I was including it in the parenthesis to show that it is technically part of the round as described in the base rules.

I agree with Charles that only the dice affected are the investigator's dice. But most (if not all) of the GOO attacks that involve dice involve investigators making Skill Checks or suffering the consequences. So when this happens, the investigators' dice will al be worth 1 less during that check.
 
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brian
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
But most (if not all) of the GOO attacks that involve dice involve investigators making Skill Checks or suffering the consequences.

And double checking, all GOOs that involve dice involve the investigators making skill checks, except the following:

Yibb-Tstll [KH] - First player makes a "focus check" so the card would still apply here
Rhan-Tegoth [IH] - Player with the most Stamina makes a "stamina check" so the card would still apply here
(and before anyone gets bent out of shape with my answer, I realize there is no such thing as a focus or stamina check but in essense, that is what it is, rolling dice based on a certain number and looking for successes - so a check!)
Nyogtha [IH] - First player rolls a single die but he is looking for a succes to save himself, so the card would still apply here
Cthugha [IH] - This is the only GOO I could find where a die was involved that wasn't looking for successes. In this case, I would say this is the ONLY attack that would ignore the card. And it penalizes you more by ignoring it since that is one extra Clue, STA or SAN you need to discard.

So Cthugha should be the only GOO not affected by Taint of Evil during his attack.
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Clay
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

2) Shotgun only works if you roll a 6. With this Epic battle card, all 6's become 5's. So they shotgun wouldn't work this turn unless you had something that added a pip back. Can't think of anything like that off the top of my head though.


The Grapple skill would give the result a +1, essentially negating Taint of Evil (For the combat check, not any other skill checks that need to be made). Similarly, the other skills with this type of effect would help with the other skill checks that you may need to make, such a Library Use helping against Nyarlathotep's attack or to cast any spells.

Other than those skills, I can't really think of anything else.
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brian
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The Message wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:

2) Shotgun only works if you roll a 6. With this Epic battle card, all 6's become 5's. So they shotgun wouldn't work this turn unless you had something that added a pip back. Can't think of anything like that off the top of my head though.


The Grapple skill would give the result a +1, essentially negating Taint of Evil (For the combat check, not any other skill checks that need to be made). Similarly, the other skills with this type of effect would help with the other skill checks that you may need to make, such a Library Use helping against Nyarlathotep's attack or to cast any spells.

Other than those skills, I can't really think of anything else.

There you go. I had a feeling there was something but I kept looking at Benefits and Detriments to see if there was something there. There are quite a few skills, not just grapple, that would work:

Dodge
Grapple
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Library Use
Psychology
Spot Hidden
 
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Tibs
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Acquiring Eihort's brood tokens should not be affected.

In general, only dice that are dependent on successes should be affected.
 
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brian
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kungfro wrote:
Acquiring Eihort's brood tokens should not be affected.

In general, only dice that are dependent on successes should be affected.

Missed Eihort as I was just looking at Attacks and not how they relate back to the GOO's abilities.

Based on intent and letter of the law, I disagree that it wouldn't be affected. This card should lower your result as well.
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Clay
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
kungfro wrote:
Acquiring Eihort's brood tokens should not be affected.

In general, only dice that are dependent on successes should be affected.

Missed Eihort as I was just looking at Attacks and not how they relate back to the GOO's abilities.

Based on intent, I would agree with you. Based on letter of the law, I might go the other way.


I would argue that the die rolled when a Brood token is gained would be effected for two reasons.

1) It is a die the investigator has to roll themself, not something that the GOO is doing like Cthugha's attack.

2) It follows the spirit of "When in doubt, do what hurts the investigators" since a -1 obviously makes it harder to roll higher than the number of Brood tokens you possess.

So both by 'letter of the law' and spirit of the game.
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brian
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Yes, I agree intent would also support you lowering your roll. I misread it and thought a lower roll was more beneficial. So I am fully convinced the Epic battle card affects this ability as well.
 
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Tibs
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There has been talk on the forums that a die result can't go above 7, specifically for how Grapple interacts with the Shotgun.

If that is true, does that mean that a die roll can't go below 1, for how it would relate to an Eihort brood roll?
 
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Clay
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If that is true, then I'd say yes, the same limit applies. When rolling the die you have to get a number between 1 and 6. Of course, I'm not actually saying that this is true and really have no hard opinion on the matter.

Sounds like we have another issue for the faq.
 
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