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Subject: To start with a big guy, or not? rss

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Matt Price
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I'm starting a BB league that may play 6-8 games, or a few more if dedication runs high. We're playing with an option to earn an extra 10K per match, to help out with costs and jumpstart teams.

So my question to y'all is: do folks generally get a big guy (ogre, troll, treeman, etc) in the first game? Or wait a few games before hiring one? I imagine this varies by team, but what have y'all done in your league play that was fun and worked for you (meaning either helped you win, or at least helped you whallop the other teams good)
 
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Rob Buchler
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If your season isn't going to carry over to another season, and you are more likely to play 6 games vs 8, I would likely skip the Big Guy, unless it's a team that desperately needs any muscle at all, such as gobbos or halfings.

If your experience is like mine, you're likely to have trouble replacing losses early in the season due to low cash, and a Big Guy can take up 2, 3, even 4 roster spots.

But by 5-6 games, if the playoffs are in your future a Big Guy might then be worth the investment.

Or just play Orcs, and you'll never need a big guy, because you have a load of blitzers and Black Orcs available for your roster...and Orcs are best anyway...
 
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Daniel Hammond
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It really depends on the team for me. I would never put an ogre on my human team really stupid, wild animal, etc + loner really limits the player and can cause problems for the team. I do start with a minotaur on my Chaos team (first level up that isn't a double take Tentacles that way even when he does nothing he does something). If you get a double I think I would go with Pro even over Block. Goblins and Halflings for sure need big guys. Woodelves I don't play but I wouldn't bother. And I would only grab a troll for Orcs if you wanted to throw goblins around (but again not the way I would take my orc team until after my skill players where developed). Deathroller is expensive for a one shot weapon. I would skip the Minotaur on Chaos Dwarves because of the lack of normal Mutation skills. I don't have an opinion on Nurgle or lizardmen sorry. Hope that helps.

 
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Philip Johnson
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I think starting with a big guy in any league format is suicide unless you're playing Gobbos or Halflings, or maybe Lizardmen.

The biggest problem with taking a big guy in your initial team is that one player makes up 10% or more of your team value, and will come at the expense of either fan factor or rerolls, both of which will hurt the team in the long run. The big guy will also cost you turnovers, which can hurt in the wrong situation. Nevermind the possibility of having your big guy killed in the first few games and having to replace him...

My rule of thumb for creating new teams is that they should have a fan factor of at least 7, and 2-4 rerolls (depends on the style of team). The goal after the first game should almost always be to buy an apothecary.

I think Lizardmen are the only non-weakling team that can reliably get away with buying a big guy (Kroxigor) in the initial team. The idea behind doing so would be to develop the big guy as early as possible with skills (along with Saurii, who you would ideally score with...it's not as impossible as you might think). This team would have also buy the max number of Saurii, and essentially ignore any skink deaths early on and play down a man or more, favoring the apothecary purchase and relying on SPPs hitting the Saurii/kroxigor early to build team strength.
 
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Gert Corthout
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Some teams just absolutely need big guys from the start: Halflings, Chaos Pact, Goblins and Underworld Creepers come to mind.
Some teams don't need them but starting with them is probably good idea: Nurgle, Lizardmen, Humans (in a bashy league).
Some teams don't need them but will try to get it eventually: Orcs, Wood Elves, Skaven, Slann, Norse and Chaos.
Some teams don't need them and might never even buy one: Chaos Dwarves and Dwarves.

That's my take on it. The biggest advantage of taking a big guy early on is that he'll gain skills faster. Otherwise Big Guy development is often slow. The biggest disadvantage is their notorious unreliability. A common rookie mistake is to get on early and start relying on it for important plays because of his high str. Which will backfire sooner rather then later of course.
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Chris Broggi
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I agree with most of what is said, but I would add Wood Elves as a team to start with a big guy. Having a treeman to start at the line of scrimmage is a great asset.
 
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Rob Buchler
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broggi wrote:
I agree with most of what is said, but I would add Wood Elves as a team to start with a big guy. Having a treeman to start at the line of scrimmage is a great asset.


True, cuz then those sissy elfs will have something to hide behind when the Orc blitzers come after them...or they can climb the treeman to try to get away...or hope the orcs get snagged by some low hanging branches...

But you won't have a very big wood elf roster if you start with a treeman, which is probably the biggest reason for the woodies to pass on their Big Guy early on.
 
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Chris Broggi
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SorenK23 wrote:
broggi wrote:
I agree with most of what is said, but I would add Wood Elves as a team to start with a big guy. Having a treeman to start at the line of scrimmage is a great asset.


True, cuz then those sissy elfs will have something to hide behind when the Orc blitzers come after them...or they can climb the treeman to try to get away...or hope the orcs get snagged by some low hanging branches...

But you won't have a very big wood elf roster if you start with a treeman, which is probably the biggest reason for the woodies to pass on their Big Guy early on.


Naw, the treeman is there for the orcs to beat their head against in frustration when they can't catch those elves.

In some ways, a treeman is more important to start with than a wardancer and they both cost the same. Wood elves are very expensive and easily wounded, so you need to protect them where you can.
 
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Anders Gabrielsson
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I like to start with a Treeman for the Wood Elves. You just need to remember that he's not so much a player as a piece of terrain and play accordingly.
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Jonathan
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As many have said, it depends on the team. I don't quite think it's 100% crazy to start with a big guy, but I usually don't bother. Wood Elfs can take a Tree at the cost of one of their starting Dancers, but, honestly, I'd rather have the Dancer. I may be super-conservative, but I usually won't buy a big guy until I have an apothecary.
 
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Jason Sherlock
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Aside from Halflings and Goblins, who I don't consider to be real teams and the strange new pact teams, I would not take a big guy as a starting player.

You are bleeding too many points away from real players who can do what your team is made to do (and use re-rolls effectively too).

Humans - Definitely can afford the ogre, but the strength of the human team is to have specialty players for all situations. Taking the ogre uses up the points that would have given you that advantage.

Wood elves - This team is all about mobility, To give up your most mobile and useful position players for a static one is in my mind shooting yourself in the foot. Your position players will gain SPP's rapidly since they are scoring TDs and occasionally causing casualties. The tree sits there and takes up space. Yes channeling is an important tactic, but save it until your team is a bit more developed.

Chaos Dwarves - Bull centaurs are almost big guys in their own right and much more useful. Spend the points on them.

Dwarves- That many points for a one shot wonder? The deathroller is a fun luxury when you have money to burn.

Lizardmen - Just because you can afford the Krox, doesn't mean that you should buy him. Saurus's are black orc blockers with speed. Invest in those, you will get a better return. They are more reliable, less expensive, and have better Sp choices. Save the 60,000 and buy an apothacary or another skink (for they are crunchy).

Skaven - I used to buy the rat ogre, but between wild animal and his cost going up, he is just not affordable anymore. Put your money into gutter runners (they are almost wood elves in their stats). Your opponent cant tackle what he can't catch.

Norse - See Human

Orcs - I think that orcs are the most overpowered team in BB. With 4 blitzers they can dominate the pitch. Save the troll money and get those blitzers.angry

Those are my opinions. Agree with them or not.


I forgot about Chaos

Chaos is the only team that I could see starting with a big guy. Chaos works primarily on squashing your opponent and then picking up specialist skills via mutation. You can't really build much of a skill team at the onset, so why not invest in a big, hulking monstrous minotaur to make smashing the opposition easier.
 
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