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Subject: More questions! rss

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Josh Luub
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I hate grouping questions together (it makes it hard to find answers when browsing the rules forum), but these are all fairly minor questions, and in some cases I think I know what the answer is already. Also, apologies if these are already answered elsewhere; I really did look.

1. If you have units with Double Defense (Grenzers or units defending against a Fortress Assault), and you play Rally the Troops (ignore 3 losses), do you ignore 3 hits, or 6 hits? The card seems to imply you ignore 6 hits (3 losses). I'm just looking for confirmation.

2. When you're 'knocking down' leaders and/or units you want to give orders to in a turn, do you have to declare what you're going to use the rest of your command points for? For example, would you have to say if you're using them to build new units or rebuild fortress steps? I suspect the answer is no.

3. If you try to force march during a marshaling move and fail (roll a 1), does the unit move as far as it can (but not ending up with the marshaling leader), or does it fail to move at all?

4. When playing "Great Redoubt", it says that all cavalry fire at 6. Do cavalry in charge vs. infantry still get -1 (i.e. fire at 5)?

5. Here's the big one: during Wintering, units out of supply are supposed to retreat back into supply. What if there is nowhere in supply for them to retreat to? This can happen if the allies take Konigsburg and Berlin (admittedly this will usually mean the game is over, but I snuck some Russians in to Berlin and captured it only briefly).

Thanks
 
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Matt R
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squonk wrote:
1. If you have units with Double Defense (Grenzers or units defending against a Fortress Assault), and you play Rally the Troops (ignore 3 losses), do you ignore 3 hits, or 6 hits? The card seems to imply you ignore 6 hits (3 losses). I'm just looking for confirmation.


Hmm. I'm not sure about this one, but my guess is that it applies to true "losses". So in your example, then the Grenzers would in effect be able to absorb more hits before they incur losses. However, don't forget to take losses from higher strength units first (if present) - losses still have to be taken evenly from the strongest units currently in the battle.

squonk wrote:
2. When you're 'knocking down' leaders and/or units you want to give orders to in a turn, do you have to declare what you're going to use the rest of your command points for? For example, would you have to say if you're using them to build new units or rebuild fortress steps? I suspect the answer is no.


Nope. You just tip them over. You also don't explain if its a unit, a leader, the identity of the block, or what the purpose is (marshalling, moving, etc). When I play, I usually remind my opponent that I have "x" amount of command points I'm saving for either new units or fortress steps.

squonk wrote:
3. If you try to force march during a marshaling move and fail (roll a 1), does the unit move as far as it can (but not ending up with the marshaling leader), or does it fail to move at all?


You first move the unit as close as possible to the location being force marched to. THEN you declare the force marching and then roll. If the unit fails to successfully force march then the unit just stays put, but it still gets to move. This is unlike certain other block games (Rommel in the Desert comes to mind) where the unit fails to move at all.

squonk wrote:
4. When playing "Great Redoubt", it says that all cavalry fire at 6. Do cavalry in charge vs. infantry still get -1 (i.e. fire at 5)?


I believe so, yes. I take it to mean that the card just forces the cavalry's "base" firing number to be 6, rather than their regular ("printed") values.

squonk wrote:
5. Here's the big one: during Wintering, units out of supply are supposed to retreat back into supply. What if there is nowhere in supply for them to retreat to? This can happen if the allies take Konigsburg and Berlin (admittedly this will usually mean the game is over, but I snuck some Russians in to Berlin and captured it only briefly).


Just in case you didn't know, there is errata on this (it sounds like you know about it). But anyway, my understanding is that the units will retreat as much as possible through enemy-held cities to get to the nearest supply location and losing one step per enemy city they have to move through until they make it or they are lost.

My understanding was that for winter quartering you do *not* need to trace a valid supply path to either a fortress or a capital. Winter quartering requires that you have units located in cities with fortresses, a friendly leader who can support them, or in a friendly (i.e. unoccupied) city.

The fact that your Russian forces held Berlin would of course have an impact on the supply phase of each turn, however...
 
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Josh Luub
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Yeah, I suspect you're right on most of those (and yes, it is Rommel in the Desert that makes me wonder about the force march rule).

Let me clarify the 5th question though. The 1.1 rules say "Units out of supply, except those besieged, now retreat and take step losses per retreat rules (pg 9.) to their nearest supplied city."

However, if Austria controls both Konigsberg and Berlin, there are no supplied cities for the Prussian to retreat to. What does he do in this case?
 
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Ron Draker
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This is the point that needs a rules update. If I can ever get my hands on the editable PDF, the rules will clarify that units out of supply retreat to the nearest supplied city, including those with limited supply from a fortress of two or more steps. If no such city exists, the units are removed from play.

Basically, if you've allowed Berlin to fall and have no fortresses left with at least 2 steps, your screwed. As the Prussians it's important early on to build up a couple of fortresses as a reserve supply in case Berlin falls.

This is how I play it in those rare instances where Berlin is still in enemy hands going into a winter. I hope this helps.
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Ron Draker
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On your question about "Rally the Troops." The card allows you to ignore the first 3 hits of that combat round before applying them to your units. It doesn't matter what units you would apply the hits to. For example, your opponent rolls 1 hit for Leaders and you ignore it, then his Infantry roll 3 hits, you ignore two of them.
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Ron Draker
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The answers provided on "Great Redoubt" and force marching are correct. Thank you!
 
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Josh Luub
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Ron D wrote:
This is the point that needs a rules update. If I can ever get my hands on the editable PDF, the rules will clarify that units out of supply retreat to the nearest supplied city, including those with limited supply from a fortress of two or more steps. If no such city exists, the units are removed from play.

Basically, if you've allowed Berlin to fall and have no fortresses left with at least 2 steps, your screwed. As the Prussians it's important early on to build up a couple of fortresses as a reserve supply in case Berlin falls.


Thanks for your responses. Does this mean that fortresses that were used for limited supply during the supply phase of the last turn of the year can supply units in winter? Or would you have to expend a strength point from fortresses again during winter?
 
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Ron Draker
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No, you don't have to expend the step unless you're still out of supply in the next supply check phase.
 
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Matt R
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Josh,
It seems as if you may be trying to combine the supply rules with the winter quartering rules - they are handled separately.

Basically, you first check for supply at the end of each turn (including the "winter" turn). If you can't trace supply to your main supply source(s) (i.e. Berlin and Konigsberg for Prussia) then you have to be able to get supply from fortresses or leaders that have at least two steps (and then reduce these units if used as a supply source). Units that can't be supplied are reduced in steps or removed (as per the supply rules).

After supply is done, on the winter turn, then you handle winter quartering. During winter quartering you do not remove steps from fortresses or leaders - that was taken care of in the supply phase.

So it doesn't really matter for the winter quartering part of the phase whether you can trace supply or not.
 
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Ron Draker
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Hi Matt,

In the updated rules you do have to make a special supply check and retreat per retreat rules to the nearest supplied city, taking step losses for enemy cities and units you pass through. You do not take supply attrition losses during this phase.

The confusion has come up over what happens if both of your supply sources are captured. I intend to update the rule to allow players to retreat to the nearest friendly supplied city even if it's a limited supply source -- meaning at least a 2 step fortress.
 
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Matt R
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Ron D wrote:
Hi Matt,

In the updated rules you do have to make a special supply check and retreat per retreat rules to the nearest supplied city, taking step losses for enemy cities and units you pass through. You do not take supply attrition losses during this phase.

The confusion has come up over what happens if both of your supply sources are captured. I intend to update the rule to allow players to retreat to the nearest friendly supplied city even if it's a limited supply source -- meaning at least a 2 step fortress.


Ah, yes that is true. I guess I think of the actual "supply check" and "winter quartering" as two sides of the same coin. Yes, they will affect each other, but I was simply meaning that you're not going to remove steps from a fortress or a leader for them offering winter quartering capabilities to other units.

Then again - I could still be completely mistaken. Guess its never really come up in any of my games, but this is a good thread anyway...

Thanks for the clarifications Ron! (And fun game too - even if I have yet to quite figure out how to win as the Prussians - )
 
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