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Subject: [POLL] Dice Etiquette as it relates to rolling. rss

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David C
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I tried finding a poll or two as it relates to dice rolling. I didn't find anything, so... I created one.

Poll
12. When do you decide a reroll should happen?
Out of the dice tower/bucket
Less than a perfect parallel to the rolling surface (IE: on board edge)
Anything on the floor
Anything stuck in thick shag carpet/oatmeal at "we can't decide angle"
We call it as it lands always, no matter where, no matter how.
It depends on how unfavorable it is to me, or not.
Other.
13. When you re-roll do you...
Re-roll all dice
Re-roll the offending dice only
14. Preferred mechanisms for rolling dice
Cup
Dice tower
Hands
Computer program
Other
15. Acceptable dice designated landing area
Bucket (with or without a dice tower)
Table
Magazine or some book (saves the bouncing)
Gameboard
Hard floor
Carpet
Other
      522 answers
Poll created by bippi
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Ian Klinck
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We don't play a lot of dice games, but we play some. Everyone's pretty good about it, so we don't have a lot of "try to weasel a re-roll because I don't like the results" behaviour.

We usually use the table/board (assuming the board doesn't have pieces that can be disrupted), but sometimes use the box lid.
 
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David C
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What I find really amazing is the "re-roll all dice" or "re-roll only the offending dice" question.

Right now it's split 20 in favor of only the offending dice, and 10 in favor of re-roll all dice. 10 in favor of "re-roll all dice" is about 9 more than I expected it to get. I just thought that was something someone did when the other 4 out of their 5 dice weren't good, either...and was looking for a re-roll.
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Mark Bigney
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The people with whom I game don't demand a perfect parallel, we just determine if the die is cocked. To do so, we put another die on top of the rolled die--if the top die falls off, the angle is too pronounced, and we re-roll the offending die. If the top die stays, we keep the result.
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David Winter
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Someone gave me 88gg for a rules translation and all I got was this lousy overtext
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Some dice musings....

"The floor doesn't count" seems almost entirely accepted

Rolling on the board can be ok, but it depends a lot on the game, anything likely to be disrupted and it's a no

If it leaves your hand, it's a roll, NO "I dropped it" re-rolls!!

I count less than parallel dice as long as it clearly favours one number over any other.

Changing your re-roll ettiquette to suit whether the dice is good or bad for you is the worst dice crime of all!!


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Marc Mistiaen
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If the die is cocked but the angle is flat enough that it's obvious which side is up, we don't reroll. If the die is cocked because there's something in the way, we usually remove the object (if possible) and the side the die that ends up is accepted. So we don't reroll often.
We don't use any special device to roll, just our hands. We do it on the table or on the gameboard, away from playing pieces in the latter case of course.
I feel like we're a pretty standard, uncomplicated bunch.
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Dr. Urza, PhD of Dungeon Crawl
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Our rules are simple.

A die is only valid if exactly one surface is touched by the bottom side of the die, and the die didn't end up on the floor. If a bucket, box, dice tower, or other container is in use, a die that bounces out of the container is invalid. The only exception to this is that a die may rest on more than one surface if the difference between the two surfaces is paper-thin.

If a roll results in any invalid dice (regardless of the reason), all dice must be rerolled.

We're all competent die rollers, so we've never had any issues with "dropped" dice.
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Keith Schleicher
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One thing I can't stand is when a person picks up the dice and then has them land almost exactly in the same place under their hand. To me, that isn't a roll, it's a pick-up and drop. He said he did it so that it wouldn't go off the table, but I felt like it wasn't a real roll.
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Roger Yim
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GrahamGB wrote:
One thing I can't stand is when a person picks up the dice and then has them land almost exactly in the same place under their hand. To me, that isn't a roll, it's a pick-up and drop.

Agreed. Everyone has a different style of rolling, so I try not to criticize technique. But it irks me when people don't follow all the proper steps of hand rolling:

1. Pick up dice and shake in a partly closed fist for at least 5 seconds.
2. Toss dice on the table (NOT onto the game board) in a manner that causes them to roll 3 to 6 inches across the table.
3. Exclaim about how the dice hate you and decry the amount of luck built into the game system.

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Scott Fasnacht
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bippi wrote:
What I find really amazing is the "re-roll all dice" or "re-roll only the offending dice" question.

Right now it's split 20 in favor of only the offending dice, and 10 in favor of re-roll all dice. 10 in favor of "re-roll all dice" is about 9 more than I expected it to get. I just thought that was something someone did when the other 4 out of their 5 dice weren't good, either...and was looking for a re-roll.

I've encountered this one before... and for some reason it seems to make sense to some people that any offending die constitutes an entirely offending role, which must be wholly rerolled. It makes no sense to me at all, as I see it simply as wasteful to take the effort to scoop up all dice when the majority have landed fine. Seems both easier and more practical to simply reroll any given dice which are invalid.

dedindahed wrote:
Some dice musings....

"The floor doesn't count" seems almost entirely accepted

I agree that it does seem entirely accepted... but I'm not quite sure why. Many floor surfaces can be read totally fine, but perhaps floor has become unacceptable because of 1) the possibility that some surfaces are bad for dice and thus floors in general must be illegal in order to make a consistent rules set, and 2) dice on the floor are often under the table and thus could be subject to cheating or inadvertent kicking. That's all I can figure for why this one is the case.

Quote:
Rolling on the board can be ok, but it depends a lot on the game, anything likely to be disrupted and it's a no

Seems very problematic most times, and simple enough to avoid, so why do it? Etiquette should include avoiding this potential problem, IMO.

Quote:
If it leaves your hand, it's a roll, NO "I dropped it" re-rolls!!

This is the one that I've most often seen tried for cheating. I've even seen a player reach for it to scoop it up (as was his habit when dropped) then suddenly pause and reconsider when he saw what number he had "dropped." Of course, he then realized that he had to pick it up since people were watching... but that "hand caught in the cookie jar" look was priceless.

On the other hand though, a die can be intentionally dropped so it lands on a known side if the player picked it up a certain way. How can etiquette preclude either of these potential methods of cheating, when preventing rerolls of drops would mean that we're forced to allow an intentional drop to stand?

This troubling situation may be a good reason to employ cups/towers, which seem to remove both problems. I guess the less intuitive side of the coin, where everyone rerolls any/all drops until all dice are released at once, would also do it. Interesting that the intuitive solution ends up being the most problematic one in this case.

Quote:
I count less than parallel dice as long as it clearly favours one number over any other.

I find "it has to be parallel on the rolling surface" to be generally easier. The real benefit is you don't have to hover over a die deciding if it's favoring a given side or not, as you can tell at a glance if a die is flat or not. It seems to save a lot of time that would've been spent scrutinizing questionable rolls, and avoids some nasty arguments where a critical die looks like it might be a good roll, but a player who is hurt by it doesn't believe it should count.
 
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David C
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GrahamGB wrote:
One thing I can't stand is when a person picks up the dice and then has them land almost exactly in the same place under their hand. To me, that isn't a roll, it's a pick-up and drop. He said he did it so that it wouldn't go off the table, but I felt like it wasn't a real roll.


This is one of those cases where a book or a magazine to land the dice on, is actually bad. If you drop a dice down on a hard floor, that sucker is going to bounce, A LOT. There's no way you could possibly predict an outcome unless you loaded the dice.

Whereas, a book or magazine almost immediately deadens the dice roll.
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Martin Gallo
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My pet peeves also include things like:

Shaking the dice for a few minutes before rolling. You are holding up the game.

Asking what to roll EVERY time. If you are not going to learn the game, why play?

JUST ROLL THE DICE!! ;-)

Sometimes OCD and ADD do not mix well - fortunately I do not have it bad, and have remained friends with people who exhibit these traits (some of whom I would game with regularly if I were gaming regularly).
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Corey Allen
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Roger Yim wrote:

3. Exclaim about how the dice hate you and decry the amount of luck built into the game system.

12


That is ridiculous. The dice have no feelings, they cannot possibly hate you.





...It is the dice gods that hate you. devil
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Mike Pranno
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The_Foz_4 wrote:
bippi wrote:
What I find really amazing is the "re-roll all dice" or "re-roll only the offending dice" question.

Right now it's split 20 in favor of only the offending dice, and 10 in favor of re-roll all dice. 10 in favor of "re-roll all dice" is about 9 more than I expected it to get. I just thought that was something someone did when the other 4 out of their 5 dice weren't good, either...and was looking for a re-roll.

I've encountered this one before... and for some reason it seems to make sense to some people that any offending die constitutes an entirely offending role, which must be wholly rerolled. It makes no sense to me at all, as I see it simply as wasteful to take the effort to scoop up all dice when the majority have landed fine. Seems both easier and more practical to simply reroll any given dice which are invalid.

While I am an advocate of rolling only offending die/dice, rolling all the dice again makes sense to me in one specific situation. Reason: The follow-up roll can be manipulated to strike the originally set dice, causing all sorts of contention between the players. The obvious solution would be to set aside the original roll (or, yes, rolling the second time away from the original roll)... but then you are already going through that "effort" you talked about earlier..
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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We see the throws as a unit, therefore we always re-roll ALL of the dice if any one die does not fit, regardless of the roll being good or bad.

We force a re-roll when:

- a die leaves the play area (floor, rest of table not used for gaming, etc.)
- a die isn't perfectly flat (if the difference is as thin as paper, that's OK)
- a die left the hand/cup/whatever before the other dice where thrown

As I said, it's absolutely irrelevant if the throw was good or bad. At least one die doesn't fit the rules? Bad luck, re-roll, please.
 
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Ken H.
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dedindahed wrote:
"The floor doesn't count" seems almost entirely accepted


Maybe among gamers, but I think among non-gamers, it is more frequent to find someone who expects every dice to count no matter where it ends up.

Also, this doesn't take into account games that are played on the floor. Most of the times I play with my kids, we sit on the floor, so all rolls are on the floor by default.


Quote:
If it leaves your hand, it's a roll, NO "I dropped it" re-rolls!!


Another kid issue. Their little hands have trouble holding all 10 Heroscape dice, so there are lots and lots of drops. They love to roll the big handful, so they decline my suggestion to just roll 5 at a time.

Quote:
Changing your re-roll ettiquette to suit whether the dice is good or bad for you is the worst dice crime of all!!


That's true. When a die goes off the table, I like it when the roller announces whether he wants it to count BEFORE he sees the roll.


On the subject of shaking the dice -- 5 seconds is too long. One second is fine. It's the amount of distance on the throw that really matters. If you are going to just drop them right under your hand, then I guess you need more shaking.

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Jeff Troyan
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dice mishaps
Back when I used to play Risk alot in my youth, we would roll the dice into the box lid (especially useful when playing on the floor). We had so many rolls which missed the lid after awhile that we created a rule wherein if you missed the box lid with any dice at all, the result was that you lost the roll (typicaly a "two you" - menaing two lost armies). This was a big enough incentive to keep it in the box at all times, even when rearing back for a crucial roll during a battle.

For some reason Risk had the biggest misses, (dice flying across the room) and this was by far our harshest rule in this regard.
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
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Generally, I cup two or more dice in both hands; give them a good, vigorous shake; then throw them into a box lid.
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Leo Zappa
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Wow - in over 30 years of game playing with a group of up to 12 other guys over that time, I've never seen any circumstance where one cocked die prompted the reroll of all of the dice thrown in the multiple dice throw scenario (a la Axis & Allies, Risk, Heroscape, etc.). It would never have even occurred to me to consider such a move if I hadn't just read it here now. I don't think the question has ever come up in any game I've played in all these years!

To be clear, I don't have a problem with the concept of rerolling all dice if one if cocked. So long as all the players agree to the convention, it's no more or less fair than just rerolling the offending die.

It's amazing how differently some groups of people can approach simple activities like rolling multiple dice. I might poll my current game groups just to get their reactions to this. For this one point alone I'm glad the OP posted this poll - it's always fun to discover differences in how people approach things! thumbsup
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Russ Williams
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We either:
1. Roll formally, into the game box lid, and reroll if it bounces out of the lid.
or
2. Roll informally and don't care where it lands (table, board, floor, whatever).

Reroll only if it's really ambigous.
 
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Caleb Wynn
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Interesting poll. We tend to either use a dice tower or if playing something where every player has their own dice (i.e. Kingsburg) we use the table.
 
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David C
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Sidewynnder wrote:
Interesting poll. We tend to either use a dice tower or if playing something where every player has their own dice (i.e. Kingsburg) we use the table.


It comes up, and what I find interesting about it is as long as there's no money involved, I'll let someone find whatever excuse they would like for a reroll. However, if I actually cared, I'm curious where my boundaries should be. There are a lot of valid opinions and theories.

-------------

On an aside, I think more often than any of us would like to admit, I know *I* look into finding an excuse for a reroll, or saying, "it's still good" if it was something I wanted---usually as a course of establishing dice reroll rules during a game. If I have a dice hit the floor, and it was something I wanted, and it's the first dice to hit the floor---floor counts as a valid playing surface for the rest of the game.
 
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My Baloney
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I answered a reroll of all the dice.
But we usually play the opponent(s) have the option of telling the roller to reroll all the dice or just the offending die.
Why ?
because it reinforces proper form and care when rolling.
Nobody likes a sloppy or careless dice roller.
 
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Chris Long
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amishburrito wrote:
Roger Yim wrote:

3. Exclaim about how the dice hate you and decry the amount of luck built into the game system.

12


That is ridiculous. The dice have no feelings, they cannot possibly hate you.


Now who's being naive.
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Martin Gallo
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One item missing from the poll is a dice tray. I think it is Chessex that makes a nice one. About 8 inches across and felt lined. My favorite place to roll dice.
 
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