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Subject: Skids Personal Story Question rss

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Mark Cresswell
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This situation came up at the weekend. Skids personal story card reads something like: each time you gain a clue, add a clue token to the personal story card and succeed if the card ever has five clue tokens. Failure occurs if there ever less than three clue tokens left in 'Arkham'.

So I was quite a way into the game. Skids had started off going for his personal story (its a fairly easy one to complete) but then got side-tracked into gate-sealing. So the situation was: three clue tokens on the personal story card and three left on the boards. Two in Innsmouth and one in Arkham.

Skids has a Press Pass, so here comes the question. By taking the clue token from the Arkham location and using the press pass to gain an additional clue, Skids passes the personal story. But by lowering the number of clues to two he fails at the same time.

I played it as a success but just wondered what others thought. Thanks.









 
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Ed Browne
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Personally, I would say it was a success, because gaining the clue gives him a success before there are less than 3 on the board to cause a failure. But usually the official interpretation is "in case of a tie, do what is worst for the investigator" so I really don't know what might be said officially.
 
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♫ Eric Herman ♫
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Hmm, that's a good question. I might say in that case, considering that both situations occurred exactly at the same time, that you should institute both the pass/fail... the remaining clue tokens are removed and he gains lore/sanity, etc.
 
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John Anderson
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Heh, I don't have an answer but I think it's funny that this actually happened.

I think we need an official answer on what happens in general if the same action triggers both the pass and fail conditions on a personal story. This came up with another personal story too, and I don't think we got it officially answered did we?
 
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brian
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puck71 wrote:
Heh, I don't have an answer but I think it's funny that this actually happened.

I think we need an official answer on what happens in general if the same action triggers both the pass and fail conditions on a personal story. This came up with another personal story too, and I don't think we got it officially answered did we?

No, we did not get an answer for Wendy either. I am of the opinion if you meet both conditions at the same time, the Negative prevails. But I got nothing to back that up.
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Bob Snake
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I'd say you never actually succeed. You cannot succed if you have failed and by taking 1 clue token (which became 2) means that even if you had 5 in your hand, there was 2 left in Arkham. Logically, we could say that to make the success requirement, the failed requirement must not be met and since you have met the failed requirement, you have not succeded.

I would have played it that way, but my gut feelings are often wrong. This game is also more fun when bad things happens.

P.S. : I'm sure I typed succeed like 4 different way!
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John Anderson
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
I am of the opinion if you meet both conditions at the same time, the Negative prevails. But I got nothing to back that up.
Bobthesnake wrote:
Logically, we could say that to make the success requirement, the failed requirement must not be met.
I agree. Maybe just make a ruling that an implicit pass condition on all the personal stories is that the fail condition isn't met, or something like that.
 
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Chris J Davis
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Bobthesnake wrote:
I'd say you never actually succeed. You cannot succed if you have failed and by taking 1 clue token (which became 2) means that even if you had 5 in your hand, there was 2 left in Arkham. Logically, we could say that to make the success requirement, the failed requirement must not be met and since you have met the failed requirement, you have not succeded.

I would have played it that way, but my gut feelings are often wrong. This game is also more fun when bad things happens.

P.S. : I'm sure I typed succeed like 4 different way!


You're obviously a glass half empty person.

You could also say that to fulfil the failed requirement, the success requirement can not have been met, and since you met the success requirement you cannot have failed.

I thought the rule was that in case of timing discrepency, the first player decides...?
 
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Bob Snake
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bleached_lizard wrote:

I thought the rule was that in case of timing discrepency, the first player decides...?


There is no timing discrepency here. When the player reaches and picks up the clue token, at that split second, since he did not have time to put it on his character sheet and have the total required before or at the same time has Arkham having less than 3, the space time continuum ruptures and all is lost.

FAIL!!

I guess it's the first player's call though. shake
 
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John Anderson
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bleached_lizard wrote:
I thought the rule was that in case of timing discrepency, the first player decides...?
I don't know about that. The only thing I can think of that the first player decides is where flying monsters move if there are multiple investigators in the streets with the same sneak value. That's not a timing discrepancy.
 
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brian
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puck71 wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
I thought the rule was that in case of timing discrepency, the first player decides...?
I don't know about that. The only thing I can think of that the first player decides is where flying monsters move if there are multiple investigators in the streets with the same sneak value. That's not a timing discrepancy.

First player only breaks ties when all things are equal, such as the Flying monsters going after two investigators with the same sneak value.

This is an issue for Kevin to decide.
 
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Chris J Davis
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
puck71 wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
I thought the rule was that in case of timing discrepency, the first player decides...?
I don't know about that. The only thing I can think of that the first player decides is where flying monsters move if there are multiple investigators in the streets with the same sneak value. That's not a timing discrepancy.

First player only breaks ties when all things are equal, such as the Flying monsters going after two investigators with the same sneak value.

This is an issue for Kevin to decide.


All things are equal. Both conditions have been satisfied simultaneously.

But agree that this issue needs to be clarified.
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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I think it's pretty straightforward. He has to actually gain the clue token before he can exhaust his press pass. Those things have to happen sequentially, not simultaneously.

Step 1: Gain Clue token.
Step 2: Exhaust Press Pass and gain another Clue token.

Between step 1 and step 2, the situation is that he still only has 4 Clue tokens while there are only 2 on the board.

Personal story fails. Seems clear.
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Alec Burns
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OK so skip the press pass and pick up two clues from the same location.
 
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Christopher Scatliff
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Well that we'll need a ruling for. But until we get one, I agree with the poster that said these situations are best solved with the "pick the one that screws the investigators the most" guideline.
 
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chris ward
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Funny, my gut feeling here is that Skids passes, but in the earlier discussion I felt that Wendy failed.

I guess I view clue gaining from the board as instantaneous, whereas in Wendy's case I can see her having to spend her elder sign, possibly taking some time over a ritual, before meeting her pass condition.

But it basically comes down to gut feeling.

- Chris
 
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Clay
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I'm with the 'fail' crowd on this one, but really I have a different question entirely. Since the pass condition is just to gain 5 clue tokens, how could he get distracted trying to seal gates, since that requires 5 clues anyways?
 
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brian
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The Message wrote:
Since the pass condition is just to gain 5 clue tokens, how could he get distracted trying to seal gates, since that requires 5 clues anyways?

I had the same question.

Either he had to get a gate sealed quickly and possibly picked up an Elder Sign or he meant had to "close" a gate in a hurry. Either way, he would be Tooleing around in the OW and not in Arkham collecting Clues.
 
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John Anderson
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Or he spent Patrice's clues to seal a gate.
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Mark Cresswell
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Hi, thanks for all the responses. Have been offline for a couple of days (playing Arkham Horror as it happens - even managed a couple of wins).

The situation with Skids was that his starting quota of Clues (two I think) doesn't count towards the success criteria. So he had gained three Clues in the first couple of turns and then a gate opened on him - thus the side-track. By the time he returned to Arkham the situation was as described. With four investigators those clues get grabbed faster than genuine bargains in the January sales.

I like the concept that a personal story cannot succeed if the fail criteria occurs at the same time, and that seems like a good house rule to apply until anything offical is forthcoming.

Skids could have waited a turn and hoped for a new Clue to appear in the next Mythos phase; but in my experience hanging around hoping for something helpful to happen is never a good strategy in this game.

Cheers, Mark
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Magic Pink
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Smoo wrote:
I think it's pretty straightforward. He has to actually gain the clue token before he can exhaust his press pass. Those things have to happen sequentially, not simultaneously.

Step 1: Gain Clue token.
Step 2: Exhaust Press Pass and gain another Clue token.

Between step 1 and step 2, the situation is that he still only has 4 Clue tokens while there are only 2 on the board.

Personal story fails. Seems clear.


I agree. The board had too few Clue tokens first. Story fails.
 
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Seth Stewart
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Something very similiar happened to my team last night.

Finn needed to kill 1 Cultist to pass his PS. The Terror Level was at 2. The issue was that we were playing Scenario 10, which causes the Terror Level to increase whenever a Cultist is taken as a Trophy.

So the dilemma. Finn kills the Cultist putting at the pass condition. The Terror Level increases at the same time to 3 putting him at the Fail condition.


Zoooooowzers!!

-glam
 
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John Anderson
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Magic Pink wrote:
Smoo wrote:
I think it's pretty straightforward. He has to actually gain the clue token before he can exhaust his press pass. Those things have to happen sequentially, not simultaneously.

Step 1: Gain Clue token.
Step 2: Exhaust Press Pass and gain another Clue token.

Between step 1 and step 2, the situation is that he still only has 4 Clue tokens while there are only 2 on the board.

Personal story fails. Seems clear.


I agree. The board had too few Clue tokens first. Story fails.
In this case I probably agree, since there's the extra step of the Press Pass, but what about if he picks up two clue tokens (or one for that matter) and those alone get him to the pass condition?
 
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Alec Burns
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This is what this entire thread is hinging upon. Follow what ever timing rule you want and rule for the side that is the most fun (which most people think it is the Mythos). Other than that we are waiting for a official ruling. All other debate just falls under personal play style preferences.
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