Ricky Gray
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You can build up to two factories in an action, one of which may be a parts factory.

The maximum number of factories in a space is 3, plus a parts factory (so really 4).

Think of it this way, too: if parts factories counted as factories vis-a-vis production, then the production table would have a line for min/max when there are 4 factories in a space. But it doesn't.

Thus, parts factories do not 'count' as factories, except when taking a building action (or Ford's special action).

It is confusing at first, but then it isn't ...

Ricky
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That is not Depeche but rather
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Cisco Serret wrote:
A "Parts Factory" is *not* a "Factory".

Correct. I thought the rules did a fine job of distinguishing the two.

Cisco Serret wrote:
So, when you count how many "Factories" you have when figuring out how many cars you can produce, you count the regular, player-colored, "Factories". You do not count the "Parts Factory" that may be present.

Also correct. If it were any other way, then you'd be missing the production quantities for four factories, since you can have three factories plus one parts factory in a space.

Cisco Serret wrote:
Where it says you can build 1 or 2 factories... then later it says "You can build a parts factory instead of a factory.", that means you can build 1 Factory and 1 Parts Factory in an action. Although, the way it was written, I don't think that was the intent. But, Mr. Wallace hasn't said you can't do that, so I guess its ok to build 1 Factory + 1 Parts Factory in an action.

I assumed that was exactly the intent. I also assume you can use the Build Factory action to build just one parts factory if you chose.
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Richard Dewsbery
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a "Parts Factory" is NOT a "Factory", but a good cigar is a smoke.
 
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J S
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When reading over the rules, I didn't find it confusing at all, all seems pretty intuitive and straightforward. In my opinion, much less fiddly compared to other Wallace games.
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Cisco Serret
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RDewsbery wrote:
a "Parts Factory" is NOT a "Factory", but a good cigar is a smoke.


You, sir, have appeared to have shot off on a tangent.
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Darrell Hanning
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I thought the rules made it abundantly clear, early on, that there were two types of factories - auto factories and parts factories.

And to call them both "factories" is no more confusing than calling all the different types of formations in a wargame "units", or calling both armor and mechanized "mechanized", for instance.
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Cisco Serret wrote:
Progmode wrote:
Cisco Serret wrote:
A "Parts Factory" is *not* a "Factory".

Correct. I thought the rules did a fine job of distinguishing the two.


A "fine job" would have been saying something like "There are two kinds of factories in this world, my friend. "Car Factories", and "Parts Factories".

The rules sometimes says "factories" when its referring to both regular factories and parts factories. In other parts, its referring to regular factories and not parts factories.


Could you please cite some of these ambiguities?

 
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Chester
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The rules also don't state that a Parts Factory cannot produce ice cream.

I feel like some folks are over-reading these rules. Its pretty straightforward.

A space can have up to three car-producing factories, and may also have a parts factory. The range of cars produced is determined by the on-board chart (ranging from one to three production factories). If a parts factory is present the cars are less expensive to produce (see on-board chart).

Ford can be used to add either type of factory to a space where you already have a factory present...within the other normal constraints.

What is there ambiguous?

If anything, maybe some questions would be resolved if there were a rule stating that you can't place a parts factory unless you have at least one production factory present in the space (although its implied and is true, whether spelled out in the rules or not).
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Ricky Gray
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Quote:
The rules also don't state that a Parts Factory cannot produce ice cream.


What??!!?

:::flips through rules:::

GASP!

:::smacks head:::

Been playing THAT wrong...

:::sheepishly turns to gaming group:::

"Um, guys, only cars can be produced with a Production action. No more ice cream"

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Cisco Serret
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cornjob wrote:
The rules also don't state that a Parts Factory cannot produce ice cream.


Now thats just silly.
 
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Cisco Serret wrote:
ok well I didn't want to go into an in-depth analysis here. But, does it say anywhere in the rules that a "parts factory" does not make cars?

Presumably, you can point to a section of the rules that states it can?

The two are differentiated from the start (page 2):
Starting the Game wrote:
Each player selects...six factories... Each player also takes one parts factory


Then, when discussing building factories (page 5), it details how to handle factories (which were defined from the start), followed by a separate section for parts factories. Differentiated again.

Then, when it details the produce cars action, it talks about factories producing cars, followed by how parts factories affect that (page 6).

And if that isn't good enough, the example of play (page 11) shows a turn in which Green produces 5 cars on a low price range space with two factories and a parts factory. Looking at the production table on the board, if the parts factory had counted, he would've had to build a minimum of 10 low price cars.

I really don't think the rules are flawed. There's no shame in misinterpreting the rules (goodness knows I've done it more than my fair share), but that doesn't mean the rules are inherently flawed.
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Chester
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If "factories" had been called "production factories" I think the semantics might have been clearer....but I don't think the mechanics and intent of the rules are hard to understand.
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Thomas Franke
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Cisco Serret wrote:
ok well I didn't want to go into an in-depth analysis here. But, does it say anywhere in the rules that a "parts factory" does not make cars?


Reading through this thread, I could not quite understand the confusion. Perhaps it is due to me not being a native speaker, so I did not grasp the subtleties in the rules phrasing that might have led to it.

For me and my limited understanding of English it was quite clear from the beginning that the (differently colored) factories were car factories producing (differently colored) cars and the (uniformly colored) parts factories were just that: producing generic parts, that could be used in building cars in order to save money for not buying from expensive suppliers.

Why should a parts factory produce cars and not parts?

Although I have to admit, to be 100% semantically correct the rules perhaps could have introduced three terms: car factories, parts factories and factories as a general term for both.

I think however, that this distinction has been made sufficiently clear in the implicit explanations mentioned by progmode.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Cisco Serret wrote:
Where it says you can build 1 or 2 factories... then later it says "You can build a parts factory instead of a factory.", that means you can build 1 Factory and 1 Parts Factory in an action. Although, the way it was written, I don't think that was the intent.


In what way can that possibly not be the intent?
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Moisés Solé
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With basic language logic, you'd say a dwarf planet is a planet, but no...
 
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