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Dominion: Intrigue» Forums » Variants

Subject: Making 8 Players More Interesting rss

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Fergus Hadley
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At the weekend we played an eight player game with two 4-player games, as suggested in Intrigue. The two games were described as the A league and B league, and after each game the winner of the B League was promoted and the loser of the A league was demoted.

Although both games started with the same 10 action cards, each person who moved was allowed to switch one card out.

And it was surprisingly good fun. On the top table especially, there was suddenly a new strategic element, in that you were trying not only to win but also not to lose, which made it very nail biting in some games.

Since then I've been pondering how to improve on this. In particular, to try and solve three things.

* How to score everyone for the evening's play.

* The B League ended up with the slower players on it, meaning the other table always had to wait for their game to finish.

* What would be a fair way to work out which league everyone starts (we did it randomly).

Any ideas?
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Michael Denman
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voidstate wrote:
At the weekend we played an eight player game with two 4-player games, as suggested in Intrigue. The two games were described as the A league and B league, and after each game the winner of the B League was promoted and the loser of the A league was demoted.

Although both games started with the same 10 action cards, each person who moved was allowed to switch one card out.

And it was surprisingly good fun. On the top table especially, there was suddenly a new strategic element, in that you were trying not only to win but also not to lose, which made it very nail biting in some games.

Since then I've been pondering how to improve on this. In particular, to try and solve three things.

* How to score everyone for the evening's play.

* The B League ended up with the slower players on it, meaning the other table always had to wait for their game to finish.

* What would be a fair way to work out which league everyone starts (we did it randomly).

Any ideas?


I'd abandon the idea of one table being better than the other to start. To alter what you've already got :

Set up the two tables with the 10 cards chosen. In random order, let players choose which table they'd like to sit at until they both fill.

Winner of a game picks one of the 10 action cards just used and KEEPS it, removing it from play.

Once both games are done, randomly reassign the 10 cards for each game again, NOT using the two cards removed by the two winners. Now everyone has to choose a table all over again. The players choose in this order : Last place player from the table that ended first, last place player from the table that ended second, next to last player from table that ende first, etc etc.

Keep doing this until you've all played a set number of games. You COULD play 15 times, 16 if you have the promo cards. But maybe you don't have the time for that and you'd like to set the number of games lower. Anyway, whoever has kept the most cards is the Grand Dominionator or whatever.

So if you do as I suggest, players can always have some control over who they're playing and which cards they're playing with. No complaining when the Big Winner is eventually chosen!
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Don Brandt
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First I need to say that I haven't seen the official 8 player game rules so pardon if I am repeating something. I like the idea of the winners being able to win a card of their choosing from the game played (I guess they are given the blue-backs as credits) and then being able to option their winning cards into the next game stacks they are playing in the future rounds. Trying to see this to a logical end. I guess eventually a game would have more winning cards to use than 10 (for a 25 card set). With that in mind, maybe the winner holds all his winning cards for credit so to speak, but only is allowed to impliment at most 2 winning card types per game (this gives no more than 8 "chosen" cards in a 4 player game). Any other cards to make up the rest of the 10 types would be choosen randomly from the cards left after the 2 different games were outfitted with the choosen cards. Some of these randoms might be made up of cards already "scored" by players, so maybe the cards that haven't been scored are always randomed first between the two games and then the "scored" cards not being used in the games this round are randomly selected to outfitted to 10. Finally, if there are 25 cards in a set, or more generally, an odd number, the final round where only one card hasn't been scored, the two top players could be assigned to the same game, giving the chance for tie breakers. Either that or of the two winners (in separte games), the player with the most vp's wins (ties broken by number of cards).
 
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Michael Denman
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done111 wrote:
I like the idea of the winners being able to win a card of their choosing from the game played (I guess they are given the blue-backs as credits) and then being able to option their winning cards into the next game stacks they are playing in the future rounds.


I don't like this personally because it gives more perks to the winners. We're talking about playing a number of games in a row here. Sure, it IS Dominion and doesn't take a long time usually, but if you're the person who isn't winning and the other players are just setting up the cards more and more to their liking... that just doesn't sound like fun.
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Bwian, just
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Let me first say: I like this. Sounds like fun, and we'll hopefully give this a try next Thursday. But... I am a gamer, and must, therefore, fiddle:

Trump wrote:
Now everyone has to choose a table all over again. The players choose in this order : Last place player from the table that ended first, last place player from the table that ended second, next to last player from table that ende first, etc etc.

The only thing I worry about is what this would do to the metagame. There's a strong incentive to give up on a bad start, and play for last place for the rest of the round. I'd keep total score for all games in the mix. At least as a tie-breaker, possibly as the main score (with wins giving a bonus of +10 points or something).

I also wonder if it would be interesting to require "claimed" cards to be unique. That way, the two tables will begin to diverge: cards can only be removed from one table, and will remain at the other table until the end of the event. This might result in people self-segregating in the last few rounds, however, so maybe not the thing to try first.
 
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Michael Denman
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I don't plan to ever do anything like this either. Just playing with ideas.

Bwian wrote:
Trump wrote:
Now everyone has to choose a table all over again. The players choose in this order : Last place player from the table that ended first, last place player from the table that ended second, next to last player from table that ende first, etc etc.

The only thing I worry about is what this would do to the metagame. There's a strong incentive to give up on a bad start, and play for last place for the rest of the round.


Hmmm. I see what you're saying, but I'm not so sure. Sure, last place gets to pick which set of 10 they'd be sitting down to, but later picks can consider that AND who they'd be playing against. I can definitely imagine cases where that might help. Still, if we assume all players are of equal skill level, then you're right. How about this...

1st place player claims THREE of the cards
2nd claims TWO
3rd claims ONE

Assuming you have all 52 options, you're losing (3+2+1) X 2 each time, so you could only do this three times. BUT, add in a rule that one player of the eight must always be at zero and everyone discards down evenly to accomodate.

Example : Round 1

Table 1 -

Player A 2nd = 2 cards
Player B 1st = 3 cards
Player C 4th = 0 cards
Player D 3rd = 1 card

Table 2 -

Player E 1st = 3 cards
Player F 3rd = 1 card
Player G 2nd = 2 cards
Player H 4th = 0 cards

Round 2

Table 1 -

Player A 2nd = 2 cards
Player G 1st = 3 cards
Player B 4th = 0 cards
Player E 3rd = 1 card

Table 2 -

Player F 1st = 3 cards
Player C 3rd = 1 card
Player H 2nd = 2 cards
Player D 4th = 0 cards

Current Totals : A=4 B=3 C=1 D=1 E=4 F=4 G=5 H=2

Nobody is at zero so everyone returns a card and the scores are :

Current Totals : A=3 B=2 C=0 D=0 E=3 F=3 G=4 H=1

.. and another round could be played. This means you're playing 3 to 6 rounds.

We're really only talking about weighted scoring, so you could just keep track on paper instead, but this method with the cards just gives you a little more to think about when you remove (and return) cards to the game.
 
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Don Brandt
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Trump wrote:
done111 wrote:
I like the idea of the winners being able to win a card of their choosing from the game played (I guess they are given the blue-backs as credits) and then being able to option their winning cards into the next game stacks they are playing in the future rounds.


I don't like this personally because it gives more perks to the winners. We're talking about playing a number of games in a row here. Sure, it IS Dominion and doesn't take a long time usually, but if you're the person who isn't winning and the other players are just setting up the cards more and more to their liking... that just doesn't sound like fun.
 
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Don Brandt
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I think it would actually be better if say....the guy to the winner's left picks the card for the winner out of the 10 played. That way the worst get won first. Then as the games go on the better ones get won.
 
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