Trey Chambers
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Houston
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Our group will rarely have more than 7-9 people, but some folks want to throw new roles in for variety.

We play 2 werewolves, 1 seer, rest villagers, and it works really well and is very balanced.

What are some other ways we could mix it up without destroying game balance and would keep the fun intact?
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David Me
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Bowling Green
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7 players: 1 Werewolf, 1 Minion (knowing) [knows who the ww is at start], 1 Hunter, 1 Spellcaster

8 players: 2 Werewolves, 1 Hunter-Mason, 1 Mason, 1 "First-Turn Vigilante", which means the first person lynched gets to take someone with them to the grave.

9 players: 2 WW is a great, pure game. No special roles. But 2 WW, 1 Hunter is also OK.
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John Clark
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Clay
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We're playing our first werewolf game today with 8 players, so I too am interested in some other good setups with small groups.

After some Seer/Villagers/Werewolf games, I was thinking of introducing the amulet of protection. I'm guessing that with so few players, the best roles to use are ones that prolonge the game by preventing deaths -- bodyguard, diseased, pacifist, priest, prince, tough guy. Any thoughts?
 
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David Me
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Don't worry about prolonging the game. Games are usually quick, especially for beginners (or use a 3-minute timer that any living player can start).

Many roles that cause people to live when they should have died prevent a good 3-player endgame, which is the climax of most great WW games. There are ways to fix them, but that can come later. Amulet of Protection is a bit of a gimmick that causes the same problem. I've played thousands hundreds, maybe thousands, of games and haven't used it.

I'd suggest beginners just play simple games so that everyone can see the fun in the game for what is is: bluffing and detection. It's great to build skills so that you can spot tells so well that people start saying "How'd you do that?!?"

Play with or without the Seer, but it really is an extra role that is misunderstood as a basic character. It's not. In an 8-player game, a Seer will tip the odds too far in favor of the village to make a win feel earned.
 
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sunday silence
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Has anybody tried playing with the owl? It gives the village a very small but definite advantage. The owl counts as a villager and at night he gets to choose one player as accused, BUT ONLY for the second vote during the following day. It is only used if the first vote fails, by way of explanation it needs to be second in the event the villagers seem quite sure of themselves on the first vote it would be unfair to deny them. It is a small advantage because if the first vote produces no lynch, then the villagers know that the second accused is definitely coming from a villager and is not coming from a wolfe. That gives the vilage a slight advantage.

I havent tried it yet, but it seems appropriate for a small group and it seems reasonably balanced that it should not throw the game too far in favor of the village. Also it might speed up the vote process, as it is simply an automatic accused..
 
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John Clark
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One person cancelled, so we ended up with only 7 players. We played without role reveal on death. Of the configurations we tried, what worked best for us was:
Moderator
Werewolf
Seer
Lycan
Villager x3

The lycan provided some cover for the werewolf against the seer, and the werewolf could always claim to be the lycan. Games seemed pretty balanced between the two teams.

We also tried:
Moderator
Werewolf
Seer
Sorceror
Villager x3

This seemed overpowered for the werewolf team, so after a few games, we stopped this configuration.

This seemed to slightly favor the villagers:
Moderator
Werewolf
Seer
Diseased
Lycan
Villager x2


I never thought about trying a game without a seer; that'd open up a lot more possibilities I'd think.
 
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David Me
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Carl Ramrod wrote:

We also tried:
Moderator
Werewolf
Seer
Sorceror
Villager x3

This seemed overpowered for the werewolf team, so after a few games, we stopped this configuration.


Did you start the game with a night kill for the wolves or maybe a 1st-turn Vigilante? If not one (and only one) of these two things, I can see why wolves had an easy time....

Carl Ramrod wrote:

This seemed to slightly favor the villagers:
Moderator
Werewolf
Seer
Diseased
Lycan
Villager x2


As above, but without a 1st-Turn Vig or WW kill, this should be a very easy game for villagers.

Also, it would probably be a lot more fun if you didn't use a moderator.

Carl Ramrod wrote:

I never thought about trying a game without a seer; that'd open up a lot more possibilities I'd think.


Yep. Much more fun to have a lower-powered good role or two.

We played last night too. Just some 5-Player using alexfrog's set-up of Hunter, Villager, Seer, WW, Sorcerer. Brutal as always. Complaints that Vills have it too easy, but WW's won a game or two of the 5 or 6 we played. Maybe we should start have the Sorc hunt the Hunter (as an Origins player suggested this year) and give Sorc and night-zero view.... Will have to test more.
 
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John Clark
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We started with a night phase -- the seer got a vision but the WW didn't get a meal. We didn't use a 1st-turn-vigilante.

How could you play without a moderator?
 
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David Me
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The problem with starting a game with a lynch with an even number of people is that you miss out on a "final 3" climax. It also tilts the balance towards the wolves a bit, because in a "final 4" there is a 1 in 4 chance to get a wolf and in a "final 3" there is a 1 in 3 chance, not considering skill because skill can be on either side in a random-teams game.

No moderator: If you have roles that see each other at the start, a player talks while asleep in the Night Zero phase, saying "Wolves raise your heads" or "Masons raise your heads", etc. With practice, you can learn to say it the same way whether you are one of these roles or not.

If you have a character that sees another but doesn't get seen, just have the seen character raise a hand while the seeing character wakes.

Then for the things that happen in night 1, the first lynched player can do that, with an experienced player walking them through it verbally while sleeping if needed.
 
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sunday silence
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Oh can someone explain what a Lycan role does? Tried to google it and/or find something on these boards but no luck. Thx.
 
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John Clark
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sundaysilence wrote:
Oh can someone explain what a Lycan role does? Tried to google it and/or find something on these boards but no luck. Thx.


A lycan is an unlucky villager who appears to be a werewolf to the seer.
 
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Lazarus Darkeyes
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Playa del Rey
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Give these a try and see what happens for you.

7 Player:

Card Balance=-2 -- Cupid, Cursed, Seer, 3 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=0 -- Cursed, Lycan, Seer, 3 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=2 -- Doppleganger, Drunk, Martyr, Seer, 3 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=4 -- Diseased, Drunk, Hoodlum, Seer, 3 Villager, Werewolf

8 Player:

Card Balance=-2 -- Cursed, Doppleganger, Drunk, Seer, Troublemaker, 3 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=0 -- Cupid, Lycan, Old Man, Seer, 3 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=2 -- Drunk, Ghost, Pacifist, Seer, 4 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=4 -- Doppleganger, Idiot, Old Man, Seer, 3 Villager, Werewolf

9 Player:

Card Balance=-2 -- Bodyguard, Drunk, P.I., Seer, Tanner, Vampire, 3 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=0 -- Doppleganger, Hunter, Pacifist, Seer, Sorcerer, 3 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=2 -- Idiot, Pacifist, Seer, Sorcerer, Spellcaster, 3 Villager, Werewolf
Card Balance=4 -- Diseased, Drunk, Mayor, Seer, Sorcerer, Spellcaster, 3 Villager, Werewolf
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