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Subject: Charging rss

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Does a unit that is attacked by a final rush get the charging bonus if it has the close standing order, was not engaged etc? Obviously, the rushing unit does get it but what about the defender. My logical intuition says no but the rulebook seems to say yes.
 
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Blake Thurston
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Yes, it still gets the bonus. Even though the game is turn based, it is simulating a simultaneously moving battle, so if you think about the fact that the calvary and the opposing unit are both charging towards one another, then it does make sense that the calvary should get the charge bonus regardless of who's turn it is.
 
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Riptorch wrote:
Yes, it still gets the bonus. Even though the game is turn based, it is simulating a simultaneously moving battle, so if you think about the fact that the calvary and the opposing unit are both charging towards one another, then it does make sense that the calvary should get the charge bonus regardless of who's turn it is.


Right, that makes sense. But that also means that the spearmen get (-1)/0/0 even though they might just be standing ground while being rushed. Isn't that a bit odd? Do you know by any chance what the idea is behind this modification of the stats? I am particularly confused because they are a unit that is meant to stand and await the enemy, as indicated by its anti-cavalry bonusses, but they end up getting positive and negative modifiers at the same time for doing this.
 
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Panagiotis Zinoviadis
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While the Spearmen are Holding (they are standing still with the Hold order) they are prepared at their front and they have their spears arrayed in a way that will provide them with the most attacks (6 normally). When they charge (close order) they are not so well arrayed so they lose one die (which they will still use the next combat round since the charge has been completed and now the back ranks have a chance to fight to) but they will get the charge bonus (+1 power) because of their momentum.
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ZiNOS wrote:
While the Spearmen are Holding (they are standing still with the Hold order) they are prepared at their front and they have their spears arrayed in a way that will provide them with the most attacks (6 normally). When they charge (close order) they are not so well arrayed so they lose one die (which they will still use the next combat round since the charge has been completed and now the back ranks have a chance to fight to) but they will get the charge bonus (+1 power) because of their momentum.


Does that mean they don't get -1 when final rushed while having the Hold order? Couldn't find that in the rule book?
 
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Andrew Gross
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Order wrote:
ZiNOS wrote:
While the Spearmen are Holding (they are standing still with the Hold order) they are prepared at their front and they have their spears arrayed in a way that will provide them with the most attacks (6 normally). When they charge (close order) they are not so well arrayed so they lose one die (which they will still use the next combat round since the charge has been completed and now the back ranks have a chance to fight to) but they will get the charge bonus (+1 power) because of their momentum.


Does that mean they don't get -1 when final rushed while having the Hold order? Couldn't find that in the rule book?


Yes, that's correct. The definition of "charging" specifies that you must be on "Close" as your order (page 34 of the most recent version of the rules, bottom of the page). If you're not on "Close", by definition you're not charging, and therefore don't get any modifiers (positive or negative) that apply to charging units.
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James Motz
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Which also means that you can't initiate contact with an enemy unit if you are not on Close. You can certainly *be* charged, but you can't charge unless you have ordered your troops with the Close command.

And you also don't get Charging bonuses if someone charges you on the flank or rear.

It will make sense once you play it a few times!
 
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andrewgr wrote:
Order wrote:
ZiNOS wrote:
While the Spearmen are Holding (they are standing still with the Hold order) they are prepared at their front and they have their spears arrayed in a way that will provide them with the most attacks (6 normally). When they charge (close order) they are not so well arrayed so they lose one die (which they will still use the next combat round since the charge has been completed and now the back ranks have a chance to fight to) but they will get the charge bonus (+1 power) because of their momentum.


Does that mean they don't get -1 when final rushed while having the Hold order? Couldn't find that in the rule book?


Yes, that's correct. The definition of "charging" specifies that you must be on "Close" as your order (page 34 of the most recent version of the rules, bottom of the page). If you're not on "Close", by definition you're not charging, and therefore don't get any modifiers (positive or negative) that apply to charging units.


Ahhh... That makes sense. Thank you so much, problem solved.:-)
 
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Another quick question: Is the Engaged Target combat modifier when shooting at an engaged unit optional or compulsory? I read in the excellent play aid that Yokiboy uploaded that it is optional but in the rulebook it is not in the optional section.
 
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James Motz
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The most recent version of the rules (2.4) makes the -1 penalty for shooting at an engaged unit mandatory. This is on page 36. I think earlier versions had this as an optional rule.

The current optional aspect of this kind of attack is the chance of hitting your own unit by shooting at an enemy engaged with it - page 58.
 
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LazyJ wrote:
The most recent version of the rules (2.4) makes the -1 penalty for shooting at an engaged unit mandatory. This is on page 36. I think earlier versions had this as an optional rule.

The current optional aspect of this kind of attack is the chance of hitting your own unit by shooting at an enemy engaged with it - page 58.


Right, so it is a recent change. That was probably what confused me.
Btw. can one use direct control to engage a unit (i.e. not necessarily with the center point) or can you only engage with a final rush?
 
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Panagiotis Zinoviadis
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You can only engage with a Final Rush. The first edition of the rules allowed what you said but now you can only engage with a final rush.
 
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Thanks again. I guess I'll never stop asking questions... Here is another one. For final rush it says "A unit is near enough to final rush if its front center point is within its MC of an open side center point of the nearest enemy unit" It also says "When a unit final rushes, move its front center point to the center point on the enemy’s facing side (or the nearest open side if the facing side is not open)."
Would that mean that if I am in front of a unit and in rush range to its front center point at which it is currently engaged by another unit, I could simply put my unit next to a side center point (or the back even if the side center points are occupied too?) or would that in some way clash with the open path rule?
 
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Panagiotis Zinoviadis
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You can put the unit at a side open center point if the front center point is 'occupied' by another unit but still the distance of you front center point to the open side point should be less or equal to you movement rating i.e. you still have to reach it.
 
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Chad Ellis
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That's a lot of questions that I don't have to answer since they've already been covered.

Just to clarify on the last one -- if the enemy unit is already engaged on its front, the front is (with rare exception) not an open side. Thus, to see if you're in final rush range, you'd measure to one of the other sides that was open. If that's in range, then yes, you just plunk your unit down -- lining up your front center point as close as possible to the center point of that side.
 
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ZiNOS wrote:
You can put the unit at a side open center point if the front center point is 'occupied' by another unit but still the distance of you front center point to the open side point should be less or equal to you movement rating i.e. you still have to reach it.

Chad_Ellis wrote:
That's a lot of questions that I don't have to answer since they've already been covered.

Just to clarify on the last one -- if the enemy unit is already engaged on its front, the front is (with rare exception) not an open side. Thus, to see if you're in final rush range, you'd measure to one of the other sides that was open. If that's in range, then yes, you just plunk your unit down -- lining up your front center point as close as possible to the center point of that side.


Great, thank you very much!
 
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