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Subject: Rating Games We've Never Played rss

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Jason Quintal
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Just getting tired of people on the geek who rate games they've never played based solely on the fact that "the game looks cool" or "the game has 400 plastic bits" so they rate it a 10. I can see leaving this in the "n/a" department, but apparently these people need their voice to be heard [read] at the top of these ratings lists. Any ideas how to quash this uprising?

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James Palmer
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There's not really any way to quash it. In fact, if you look at the help for the ratings system, it's mainly based on desire to play rather than what you actually think of the game.

It generally evens out though, as the ratings don't count until there's at least 30, and there's usually a few people who haven't played it giving it 1's as well, so the score is rarely affected significantly by this.
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Romian Tuesta-Vilca
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Well, there are two geeklists, that I know, in which games are rated using different criterias than just the voting system. Maybe you could check them up and have a better idea of which games are popular based on game sessions, number of ownerships, etc.

I also think that people should not rate games they have not played, but there is not much we can do against it, is there? Anyways, they have the right to vote and give their opinion no matter how inaccurate this could be.

Regards,

Romian
 
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Michael Debije
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Who cares? Let people rate any game they want, seen or unseen. How does this hurt you in any way?
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Dan Cain
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mi_de wrote:
Who cares? Let people rate any game they want, seen or unseen. How does this hurt you in any way?


Sing on brother!

Putting any value solely on a game's rating would be comical, at best.

Wanting to quash this, is like wanting to quash all votes that aren't whole numbers. It's subjective, and doesn't particularly make any sense.

LA
 
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David C
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mi_de wrote:
Who cares? Let people rate any game they want, seen or unseen. How does this hurt you in any way?


Speaking as a fledgling gamer who uses every criteria they can use to find out if a game is good or not, someone, somewhere, has lost money on having bad ratings....and likewise, someone, somewhere, has made money on good ratings.
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Pete Lane
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mi_de wrote:
Who cares? Let people rate any game they want, seen or unseen. How does this hurt you in any way?


While true, it also makes them look like idiots. Not that any of us should care.

It is like going onto a movie site for a film not yet released to see 193 reviews from rabid fans who think it's the BEST MOVIE EVAAARRRR because some starlet is in it. Than a week later the movie comes out and it stinks.
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Josiah Miller
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Quote:
It is like going onto a movie site for a film not yet released to see 193 reviews from rabid fans who think it's the BEST MOVIE EVAAARRRR because some starlet is in it. Than a week later the movie comes out and it stinks.


Like any movie starring a Wayans brother?
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David C
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Nick Warcholak wrote:

I've lost plenty of money on good ratings too. The whole system is crap really. Reviews and session reports are much more useful.


I can't argue with you there.

I will say this... when I see a game that has mostly 6s, and a game that has mostly 8s, that does sway my opinion a bit.

However, in either case, there's quite a few 1-4s, which, could happen.
 
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Jason Quintal
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I have no issue with people posting useful information in the rating system area. Admitting to never playing a game in your description and then rating it a 10 seems needless.
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Paul Bryant
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Nick Warcholak wrote:


I've lost plenty of money on good ratings too. The whole system is crap really. Reviews and session reports are much more useful.


You are pretty misguided in saying that the rating system is "crap" it does give a very accurate reflection of the over all perception of a game in this community. So for that it is perfect.

You are however dead on in saying that reviews and session reports are the best way to find out if a game is for you.
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I have rated many games on BGG that I have "never played" - oh, I've played them, just long before I discovered BGG and started recording plays.

This is why it would be nice if you could record "estimated number of previous plays" for games., or at least indicate "I have played this game before".
 
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Jens KH
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There are lots of people on here who don't use BGG to record plays, so I'm not sure that would help.
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Pete Lane
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Yeah i do wish they had a "played" selection in the collection (as it seems BGG assumes if you are rating it, you have played it). I go to plenty events and marathons where I get to play games before I buy. Some cases though, it doesn't end up on the shopping list.
 
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Driver 8
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I'd like to see a statistic like "How many BGG users have this game listed in their Top 10." Seeing that you only have 10 games to put in your Top 10, you'd be forced to be a little more selective.

Not that this would stop people from rating games that they haven't played, of course. But it might give us all an idea of what games are most loved.
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Max Jamelli
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Driver 8 wrote:
I'd like to see a statistic like "How many BGG users have this game listed in their Top 10." Seeing that you only have 10 games to put in your Top 10, you'd be forced to be a little more selective.



This would be a great addition.
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Darrell Hanning
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fizzle wrote:
There are lots of people on here who don't use BGG to record plays, so I'm not sure that would help.


I've rated over 600 games, yet my "played" statistics only reflect 4 of those. Why? Because I stopped recording playings right after I started. It struck me as a pain in the butt, with no tangible results. And I would never, ever recover the 35 years of game playings I had, that occurred prior to BGG starting to keep track of it.

So, I suppose the OP thinks I'm completely outrageous, for "not having played" some 600 games I've rated.
 
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P.D. Magnus
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DarrellKH wrote:

So, I suppose the OP thinks I'm completely outrageous, for "not having played" some 600 games I've rated.


The OP doesn't say anything about logged plays. I think it's really complaining about people who rate games they've never played, whether logged or not.
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Jason Quintal
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DarrellKH wrote:
fizzle wrote:
There are lots of people on here who don't use BGG to record plays, so I'm not sure that would help.


I've rated over 600 games, yet my "played" statistics only reflect 4 of those. Why? Because I stopped recording playings right after I started. It struck me as a pain in the butt, with no tangible results. And I would never, ever recover the 35 years of game playings I had, that occurred prior to BGG starting to keep track of it.

So, I suppose the OP thinks I'm completely outrageous, for "not having played" some 600 games I've rated.


Darrell, this isn't the case. I'm primarily talking about people who have not played the games at all and have decided to rate them. Some people state in their rating explicitly that they have not played the game and are basing their "rating" on pictures they have seen, etc. This also tends to happen for games which have yet to be released. I can understand if a play tester rates the game, or if someone has played a demo of it at a convention, but blindly rating a game without even playing it is what the post is about...

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Jesse
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I can get behind the spirit of this. People shouldn't rate games they haven't actually played.

But there's no way to actually enforce this.
Edit: Aside from games where it's impossible to have played it.

It's a minor issue that doesn't seem to affect the ratings that much. And like Nick said, reviews and sessions are much more effective tools to help make purchase decisions.
 
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Jason Quintal
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Makes sense...just voicing an opinion. I'll get over it whistle
 
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Jesse
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I wasn't intending to bring the discussion to a close. Sorry if my post seemed to have a 'putting my foot down' tone to it.

As I've stated, I agree with what you're trying to get across. But I can't think of any system that could possibly enforce it, at least not one that could improve the rating system to such an extent that would offset the work put towards it.

Maybe that's just a limitation on my imagination.
 
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Jason Quintal
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Oh no problem, Jesse - I think this is primarily a pet peave of mine that I'll just fight through. It's also just a snapshot, knee-jerk reaction to a few instances. The majority of ratings here do give good insight to the pros and cons of the games.
 
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Bill Eldard
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Devonelle wrote:

I have no issue with people posting useful information in the rating system area. Admitting to never playing a game in your description and then rating it a 10 seems needless.


It's worse than needless; it's pointless.

Why would anyone waste their time rating a game they haven't played, when their rating will be summarily disregarded anyway?

ABOUT THE RATINGS: I'm less concerned about the BGG rating system because it is very unscientific. Beyond the lack of control and consistency over participants and standards, the real problem with the system is not uncommon: taking the average of the ratings to two decimal places offers a semblance of scientific accuracy, when in actuality, there is nothing of the sort.

ABOUT RANKINGS BASED ON THE RATINGS: Consequently, rankings based on these ratings are meaningless to me. Is there really a significant difference between a game rated 6.53 and one rated 6.57? Probably not.

HOW TO USE THE RATING SYSTEM: The system can be useful by providing a general yardstick by which to compare a game vis a vis other games. But I never rely soley on the rating system for game information. In fact, I've bought some games that were not particulary well-rated on BBG, but turned out to be games that I really enjoy. In such cases, I've usually been swayed by individual game reviews and session reports, images of the components, reading the rules (if available), the designer's reputation, and the theme.

WHAT MIGHT BE BETTER: I'd almost prefer a general color code system

RED - a poor game. The design is flawed. Most players will not replay it. (Perhaps the bottom 5% of games)

YELLOW - an average game. The design works, and it will get repeated playings.

GREEN - a superior game. High demand from players for play. (Perhaps the top 10% of games)
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David C
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Eldard wrote:

RED - a poor game. The design is flawed. Most players will not replay it. (Perhaps the bottom 5% of games)

YELLOW - an average game. The design works, and it will get repeated playings.

GREEN - a superior game. High demand from players for play. (Perhaps the top 10% of games)


I feel the need to inject what I find useful here:

I have about 46 geek buddies who rate the games they own with descriptive tidbits about games. I hit the "geekbuddy analysis" on it, and usually that will tell me something.

Then I also see what clearclaw rates it (if available), and do an inverse of that to see how much fun it is. (He did win the award for fun murdering)

Finally, I do look at the ratings, and seeing the 'spike' focus somewhere around an '8' does mean something, relative to the 'spike' focusing around a 5-6. The focus around the '8' range means quite a few have said, "this is a good game". Because, in the end, they all average to about a 7 anyway.

Me, personally, I like the x-play 5-star system:
1 star -> this is broken. I mean, REALLY broken.
2 star -> not my cup of tea. Functional, but...not good.
3 star -> I could take it or leave it. Either something irks me, but it's an otherwise good game, or it's just something to do to pass the time.
4 star -> this is a good game. I like playing it. Everything is awesome
5 star -> Genre defining game that you will be a better human being for playing.
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