Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Up Front» Forums » Rules

Subject: Infiltration question rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Scott Smith
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
This came up in a wargameroom league game, and we couldn't find an answer.

We are playing Scenario F. He has group A/B/C with group A moving to RC4.

My Group B is moving at RC1. I successfully infiltrate his group with 1 guy. This stops the RC4 victory condition for that group (for now).

He discards a Minefield onto my Group B. I reject the terrain moving back to RC0.

The question is do I lose the infiltrator in my Group B? If so, what is the appropriate rules reference (20.53 does not seem to indicate I do)?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Smith
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I think those were the only relevant conditions. The only part I missed was that it was under the Desert rules, he was French, and I was Germans, but I don't think that impacts anything here. Does it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Smith
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Well poo. I would have probably won that game then (especially with him being out of range to infiltrate back since my group A was at RC1). Maybe I can get Bruce to look into it for the next update of the game for the IUFL. Thanks for the help.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Owsen
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Note-- you can't normally reject a minefield, however, a minefield can only be discarded on a moving group that is eligible to receive terrain (see 24.3). So, unless you had a move card, you couldn't have had the minefield played on you. If you did have a move card, you couldn't have rejected it.

In any event, if you were able to reject the terrain (say it was Brush), once he had been successful, your infiltrator would not have lost his status per 20.53.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Smith
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
mummykitty wrote:
you can't normally reject a minefield

This was in desert conditions so 52.11 allows for them to be rejected.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Owsen
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
OK, I don't have the desert rules. You really can reject minefields in the desert? Huh. I guess that must simulate known minefilds or something.

If you have already successfully infiltrated, Rule 20.53 says you only lose infiltration if you play a movement card on your group (that your man came from). If you reject terrain, you are not playing a movement card. (There are other cases there where you could lose infiltration, such as pin, etc. but the only one I was looking at was playing the movement card.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Smith
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
mummykitty wrote:
I guess that must simulate known minefilds or something.

Bingo.

Rule 52.11 says "a player can always reject a Minefield card discarded upon him (7.3), but if he accepts it the Minefield may be in fact real or a fake. The accepting player must immediately draw a RNC to determine if the minefield is real. If he draws a black RNC=>1 the minefield is real. If he draws a 0 or red RNC, the minefield is a fake and is immediately flipped to the Open Ground side."

What I was trying to do was keep my infiltrator in B protected by having him at RC0 and RR4 to the infiltrated group A. Since my group A after the rejected terrain was at RC1, he would have to either attack and pin the infiltrator in my group B or try to eliminate my group A, move up, to infiltrate and enter close combat. Either is much more difficult than just simply accepting the terrain (since good odds of it being a fake) and having him infiltrate and close combat the 3 guys in the group.

I reject the terrain, He drops his in some defensive terrain for the win. Hopefully this will be fixed in future iterations of the program.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Smith
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
upfront2000 wrote:
But that's an entirely different situation and one that is consistent with the rules, so it doesn't need fixing.

The part that needed fixing was that the program assigned victory to the French because he dropped his group A in defensive terrain at RC4 in spite of the fact that that group was infiltrated by my group B. That isn't right per the rules of Scenario F.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Smith
United States
Madison
Alabama
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Andrew,

Looks like you are right. Infiltration wasn't lost because of rejecting the terrain. It was lost because he dropped some terrain. I suppose in retrospect I should have just accepted the terrain and tried to deal with the RR5 bullets.

No problems with Bruce's implementation of the game at all. I love it. When I asked him about this last night, he seemed baffled about it also. Looks like it was because I was miscommunicating the important details of the situation because I was focused in the wrong direction.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Owsen
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The situation (and solution) totally make sense to me now.

I need to get the Desert rules at some point-- my buddy has a copy I can borrow.

In general, I think the rules are pretty straightforward, they were just designed for programmed instruction so things are scattered about. Even though I don't think the current rules are as horrible as some people, I do agree that a new edition of the rule book would be nice to have. I would hope that a new edition of the game didn't change much though, because this is generally a finely tuned game with a lot of depth.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roar Stensrud
Norway
Tolvsroed
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mummykitty wrote:

I need to get the Desert rules at some point-- my buddy has a copy I can borrow.


The Desert rules, can easily be found here: http://www.iufl.org/Rulebook/

You still need the French and Italian PCs for completion, though.

R.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Owsen
United States
Redmond
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the link to the online rules. The Javascript on that site seems to be disagreeable to my IE 8...

Microsoft!!!! shake
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Irving
United States
Salinas
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
upfront2000 wrote:

Bruce Wigdor has really done a good job with the program. I believe it really only ignores one rule (Italian surrender) and it takes a different interpretation on one other rule, but I forget which one at this time.


I believe the alternate interpretation is Target Acquisition cannot be obtained if an AFV is buttoned up in IUF, but errata says it can.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.