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Subject: Urbanization screwage rss

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Jim Cote
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A player may build track to a town, leaving one or more incomplete links going off in other directions, Another player can then urbanize this town destroying all the incomplete links, and then build from those same hex side himself. Is this true? It seems nasty and unthematic.
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Marcin Krupiński
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It's exactly as you say.
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Karl Rainer
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Yes, a perfectly legal and horribly nasty move. Unthematic? I seem to remember many instances of expropriation and claim jumping in railroad-era historical accounts.

Cheers!
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Pasta Batman
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ekted wrote:
A player may build track to a town, leaving one or more incomplete links going off in other directions, Another player can then urbanize this town destroying all the incomplete links, and then build from those same hex side himself. Is this true? It seems nasty and unthematic.

Not quite as nasty as you describe here. If you managed to extend any of those links beyond the bit on the town tile itself before it became urbanaized, you do retain ownership of the incomplete link.
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Randall Bart
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Welcome to Steam.
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Snooze Fest
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ekted wrote:
A player may build track to a town, leaving one or more incomplete links going off in other directions, Another player can then urbanize this town destroying all the incomplete links, and then build from those same hex side himself. Is this true? It seems nasty and unthematic.


Yeah. Don't let that happen to you!
 
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Daniel Corban
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How could you possibly "fix" this? Ban urbanizing towns in this state?

I don't see any problem with the way it is. Everyone knows that an unextended town is in a precarious situation.
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Jim Cote
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dcorban wrote:
How could you possibly "fix" this?

Well, I've often said (even in AoS) that the whole way towns work is a design flaw: urbanizing to destroy track, having track cost more to a town than to a city, etc. A town should simply be a full hex, like a city. This fixes the building cost complexities, extra required game bits, and backwards building costs.
 
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J C Lawrence
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ekted wrote:
dcorban wrote:
How could you possibly "fix" this?

Well, I've often said (even in AoS) that the whole way towns work is a design flaw: urbanizing to destroy track, having track cost more to a town than to a city, etc. A town should simply be a full hex, like a city. This fixes the building cost complexities, extra required game bits, and backwards building costs.


Why not view the handling of towns as an advantage? they provide a multi-layered mix of advantages and risks WRT track, urbanisation, blocking plays, access control, etc. in my own play and from what you've written so far, towns seem quite wonderful.
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Richard S
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And, then, of course when all the expansions cities are gone:

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jim b
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ekted wrote:
dcorban wrote:
How could you possibly "fix" this?

Well, I've often said (even in AoS) that the whole way towns work is a design flaw: urbanizing to destroy track, having track cost more to a town than to a city, etc. A town should simply be a full hex, like a city. This fixes the building cost complexities, extra required game bits, and backwards building costs.

If I understand you correctly - this is much like towns & cities work in Railroad Tycoon. Have you tried that?

Many AoS/Steam players love the competitive, tight, costly, and even short-lived leverage of undeveloped towns; and, the independent barnstorming of city-grid access after urbanization.

edit - minor
 
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Jim Cote
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jimb wrote:
If I understand you correctly - this is much like towns & cities work in Railroad Tycoon. Have you tried that?

RRT has too many of its own problems.

jimb wrote:
Many AoS/Steam players love the competitive, tight, costly, and even short-lived leverage of undeveloped towns; and, the independent barnstorming of city-grid access after urbanization.

I like all those things too, just not at the expense of elegance. You could make the auction even more difficult by disallowing bids of $3, $5, and $7 for no reason other than to force you to pay more in some circumstances. I'm guess in this case, players would complain about the absurd arbitrary rule.
 
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jim b
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ekted wrote:
I like all those things too, just not at the expense of elegance.

Right, it's a matter of perspective.

I look at towns as points, in the center of a hex. As a graphing issue, then, it's natural to need to connect those points to the hex-sides, in order to meet any other track segments at that edge.

Cities, by contrast, have access at their hex-sides, and are otherwise practically inaccessible - so you need track to that hex-side, but not beyond.

That's an abstract way to view it, but it doesn't seem particularly unrealistic or unthematic. The original dirt roads & shanty-houses will get paved over, planned access routes into town will be negotiated with land seizures, major loops may circumvent the urban area, shipping/transit may be locally managed within the grid, payola, etc.

I appreciate you don't see it this way - I'm just offering a different perspective.
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Chester
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Its a bigger screw-over when this happens in AoS, since points are awarded for each hex involved in a completed link...you can lose several points from one urbanized town to which you had several links terminate.

In Steam, your score is the same despite the length (or number of hexes) involved in a link. The only drawback then is that someone else may build out of a hex side before you can extend an incomplete link (that was overgrown by urbanization) and that you may have paid money to connect to the town that no one else pays now that they're just connecting to a city.

I suppose the color of the city could also cut off longer routes to the same color city, but on the other hand there will be goods cubes on that tile (which may be a boon) and it becomes a potential destination on its own (also may be used to advantage).

Urbanization is a very powerful and usually expensive action to take...and its hard to imagine a situation where a town in the middle of someone else's network being urbanized "just to screw them" is a wise move. It could happen as a side effect, but its not a direct attack for that sole purpose. (That DID happen with AoS however.)

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jim b
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ekted wrote:
jimb wrote:
If I understand you correctly - this is much like towns & cities work in Railroad Tycoon. Have you tried that?

RRT has too many of its own problems.

It does, indeed. Rails of Europe fixes a good number of RRT's problems, if you haven't tried it.
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Jim Cote
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jimb wrote:
ekted wrote:
jimb wrote:
If I understand you correctly - this is much like towns & cities work in Railroad Tycoon. Have you tried that?

RRT has too many of its own problems.

It does, indeed. Rails of Europe fixes a good number of RRT's problems, if you haven't tried it.

I will be trying it at some point. A friend owns it and has explained all the positive changes from the original RRT system. The Europe map looks good too.
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