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Dominion: Intrigue» Forums » General

Subject: Obvious card preferences rss

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Branko K.
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Anders Gabrielsson
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Well.. yeah. The costs are different.
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Anders Rosendal
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Of course some cards are better than others. But that's also why they cost more

But something fun to do is to look at the cards:

Smithy Torturer

For one coin more you get the opponent to lose 2 cards or take a curse.
That's one coin I'll use

Other cards that are almost the same?
 
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David desJardins
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Curse < Province
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Dave G
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Curse < Province


Dominion < Sex

but just barely....
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Everett Scheer
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djgutierrez77 wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Curse < Province


Dominion < Sex

but just barely....


Speak for yourself
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Dan Schaeffer
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Elgar wrote:
djgutierrez77 wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Curse < Province


Dominion < Sex

but just barely....


Speak for yourself


So are you saying... Sex < Dominion? wow
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Ian Kelly
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Allow me to introduce myself. I am Hexachlorophene J. Goodfortune, Kidnapper-At-Large, and Devourer of Tortoises par Excellence, at your service.
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gf1024 wrote:
Smithy < Torturer


Only as long as the Curse pile hasn't run out. If it has, then Torturer < Smithy.
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Ian Kelly
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Allow me to introduce myself. I am Hexachlorophene J. Goodfortune, Kidnapper-At-Large, and Devourer of Tortoises par Excellence, at your service.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Curse < Province


At least Curse isn't vulnerable to Bureaucrat...
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Carc >> BSG
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I was told there'd be no math.
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Jeff Wolfe
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Peristarkawan wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Curse < Province


At least Curse isn't vulnerable to Bureaucrat...


And it doesn't help the Tribute.
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Brandon Richards
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Village < Mining Village
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Branko K.
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Village People < Mining Village People
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Greg Filpus
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Beating these things is so much more fun, though. There are so many odd situations.

Quote:
Pawn < Market


Market is vulnerable to Saboteur.

Quote:
Workshop < Ironworks


If you're going to play a Library later on in the turn, the +1 Card you're drawing from the Ironworks actually hurts you, because if you drew it with the Library you'd have a chance to pass it over.

Quote:
Smithy < Torturer


Library makes discarding two cards sometimes beneficial. (And in that case it's better than Militia in some decks because you can get to an empty hand) Masquerade makes taking Curses sometimes beneficial.

Quote:
Smithy < Nobles


Nobles is vulnerable to Bureaucrat, and does more for a Tribute.
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Josh P.
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ejcarter wrote:
I was told there'd be no math.


What? Like "ever"? Surely your math teacher told you that stuff is relevant to your own life. Why just the other day I had to figure out the cosine of 40 plus the natural log of e. Gosh, this new TV is a pain to set up.
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Felix Rodriguez
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joshp wrote:
cosine of 40


Radians or Degrees?
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Mat Nowak
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I'm probably going to get some flak for this, but I honestly feel that:

Courtyard > Smithy.

It costs way less to buy and it allows you to put back an action card so that you can play it next turn instead of it being discarded now. Way more useful than drawing three cards, finding some actions and then not being able to do anything with them.
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Ian Kelly
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Mateui wrote:
I'm probably going to get some flak for this, but I honestly feel that:

Courtyard > Smithy.

It costs way less to buy and it allows you to put back an action card so that you can play it next turn instead of it being discarded now. Way more useful than drawing three cards, finding some actions and then not being able to do anything with them.


I think you may be on to something. I was doubtful at first, but then I tried it in simulation. The result: Big Money with 2 Courtyards hits 4 Provinces in 14.10 turns. That's faster than one Smithy, Envoy, or Council Room, and it's approximately as fast as ChapLab on a 3/4 split.

The difference seems to be that Courtyard lets you play two copies risk-free, whereas the other three can easily interfere with one another. But it's not just that. A single Courtyard (14.95 turns) is nearly as fast as a single Smithy (14.90 turns), suggesting that Smithy is perhaps not that much better than Courtyard in general.

Tangentially, the most surprising result is that buying Courtyard + Nothing is actually a full turn better than buying Courtyard + Silver. I think this may be due to a cascade effect where by having only 11 cards on turn 3, each shuffle then comes a turn earlier than it would otherwise.
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Garry Bowlin
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In regard to your simulations, what happens with the following:

open - Courtyard Nothing (your simulation says this is optimal)
the first k times you would buy a silver, buy courtyard.

What happens as you vary k?

I would almost be willing to guess k=3 is optimal.
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Ian Kelly
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gsbowlin wrote:
In regard to your simulations, what happens with the following:

open - Courtyard Nothing (your simulation says this is optimal)
the first k times you would buy a silver, buy courtyard.

What happens as you vary k?

I would almost be willing to guess k=3 is optimal.


After further testing, the Courtyard / Nothing finding turns out to be false after all (phew). The Courtyard / Nothing and Courtyard / Silver scenarios were accidentally reversed.
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David desJardins
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Peristarkawan wrote:
Tangentially, the most surprising result is that buying Courtyard + Nothing is actually a full turn better than buying Courtyard + Silver.


I find this really hard to believe.
 
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Anders Gabrielsson
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With Courtyard you could also tune your money use. If you draw a lot more money than you can use with Smithy the extra is just wasted, but with Courtyard you could put back an extra gold on the drawpile, improving your next hand as well.
 
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-=[Ran Over]=-
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gsbowlin wrote:
I would almost be willing to guess k=3 is optimal.
Come on! Do it! Do it! ... I would almost be willing to dare you.
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Brian Stallings
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Smithy and Courtyard are also related. I think I prefer the Courtyard because of the flexibility it offers, especially costwise.

I feel there are more.tableaus that favor the CY over the Smithy. Maybe because there are many terminal actions ,as opposed to several multi-action cards that allow the Smithy to shine. not sure of the mathematics involved though.

I feel the flexibility of the CY, rather than brute strength of the Smithy, builds a better deck.



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Tony Chen
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Curse < Province
Because the Curse was put into the game so that players can consider buying it, just like the Woodcutter.
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