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Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel! – Kursk 1943» Forums » General

Subject: Only 4 Maps = Limited replayability? rss

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Malte Menger
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I'm wondering if anyone here besides me is concerned about the replayability of this game. Since it has only 4 Mapboards (one of which is a huge field) i do think that there will be only a limited amount of different terrainconfigurations. Any thoughts about this?
 
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James Palmer
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Storms of Steel also has overlays (with hills and other features) that you can place on top of the map. I would argue that there's actually more configurations in Storms of Steel than there were in Awakening the Bear. I don't think you'll have to worry about replayability. :-)
 
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Randy Dickens II
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I'd base replayability limitations on the amount of scenario's created for the game. As a whole - the game does not have a large catalog of published scenario's, so the 4 boards I do not see as limiting. I'd love to see something like the Random Scenario Generator from Combat Commander make its' way to Conflict of Heros.
 
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James Palmer
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Finkin wrote:
I'd base replayability limitations on the amount of scenario's created for the game. As a whole - the game does not have a large catolog of published scenario's, so the 4 boards I do not see as limiting. I'd love to see something like the Random Scenario Generator from Combat Commander make its' way to Conflict of Heros.


When you compare Conflict of Heroes to other wargames when they were still only 1 year old, I think for the most part, the number of scenarios is on par. I agree though; a random scenario generator would be nice. It is still in the works to get a comprehensive points value list for all units; this will at least be a step in the right direction for making up quick firefights.

Also, Storms of Steel has many more units than Awakening the Bear, which should also add to variety and replayability.
 
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Malte Menger
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how many (solo/multiplayer?) scenarios are included in kursk?
 
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James Palmer
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malteh wrote:
how many (solo/multiplayer?) scenarios are included in kursk?


As of yet I'm unsure how many firefights will be included in the game. I wouldn't be surprised if it's 10, like Awakening the Bear, with bonus firefights getting added on the Academy Games website.

The first 4ish firefights are introductory firefights, and these firefights are designed to be played solo, with rules in place to change them to multiplayer firefights. I'm unsure if there will be more solo firefights than these or not.
 
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Michael
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Felkor wrote:
Storms of Steel also has overlays (with hills and other features) that you can place on top of the map.


How does this work? Can you tell us more about these overlays?

It sounds like an additional semi-transparent board?!?
 
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James Palmer
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brauerle wrote:
Felkor wrote:
Storms of Steel also has overlays (with hills and other features) that you can place on top of the map.


How does this work? Can you tell us more about these overlays?

It sounds like an additional semi-transparent board?!?


When I first read them, somehow I had "transparent" in my head as well, although from what I've seen (I've seen the rulebook, but not the actual overlays) it looks like they are multi-hex cardboard overlays. Think of what you get in the C&C games like Memoir '44 or Battlelore, but in this case, one overlay is several hexes instead of just single hexes.

So for instnace, a map board that has a small village, with the right placement of a hill overlay, might have no village at all and have a hill instead.

Semi-transparent overlays would be a neat idea, but in practice would be rather limiting, as it often wouldn't make sense to put certain things overtop of other things and be able to see them both.
 
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Randy Dickens II
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Felkor wrote:


When you compare Conflict of Heroes to other wargames when they were still only 1 year old, I think for the most part, the number of scenarios is on par. I agree though; a random scenario generator would be nice. It is still in the works to get a comprehensive points value list for all units; this will at least be a step in the right direction for making up quick firefights.

Also, Storms of Steel has many more units than Awakening the Bear, which should also add to variety and replayability.


I do not have an issue with the amount of scenario's for the game at all - just stating that in general it is fairly small at the moment and one aspect of the game I would like to see a RSG created for.

In regards to the overlay's - they are going to really add something nice to the game with the ability to create valley's and depict hills in a much more visually satisfying way. I saw a few of them at Origin's and they looked great.
 
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Brian F
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Felkor wrote:
Storms of Steel also has overlays (with hills and other features) that you can place on top of the map. :-)
overlays - sweet! I had opened a thread on ATB about board overlays and pretty much got shot down - I think this will enhance replayability in BOTH games 10 fold
 
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Tom
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I saw them at Origins and they look similar to what is is Tide of Iron or Memoir 44. The idea was that the game could be more modular with more flexibility in designing a scenario or battle.

Everything looked very cool and I pre-ordered it while I was at Origins.
 
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Martin Gallo
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Not trying t sound snarky here, but chess only has one board and seems to have a lot of replayability. It is not the board, but the pieces and how they are used that determine replayability. If the game has a set strategy or plan or built in imbalance, that once determined gives one side a distinct advantage then replayability.

I do not think this game suffers from this problem, but I have not played it as much as most others around here. It seems well crafted to me.
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James Palmer
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martimer wrote:
Not trying t sound snarky here, but chess only has one board and seems to have a lot of replayability. It is not the board, but the pieces and how they are used that determine replayability. If the game has a set strategy or plan or built in imbalance, that once determined gives one side a distinct advantage then replayability.

I do not think this game suffers from this problem, but I have not played it as much as most others around here. It seems well crafted to me.


There are a few firefights I've played multiple times, and it never gets old. Even the first firefight, as simple as it is, I've played 5 or 6 times, and each time has felt very different. There is so much choice that the player can make, that after a turn or two, the playing field looks very different than any other time I've played the same firefight.
 
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Scott Udell
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Felkor wrote:
[


When you compare Conflict of Heroes to other wargames when they were still only 1 year old,


I'd say the same thing for the number of boards. The original Squad Leader came with four boards (don't remember the number of scenarios--think it may have been more?). The first add-on, Cross of Iron, was published two years later, wasn't a full game, and added what? Two boards? Combat Commander has six boards, backprinted (is that 3 for 6, or 6 for 12? I'm too lazy to go check my unplayed copy!), but of course the series has expanded quickly.

ASL now has about three or four hundred thousand boards (or so it seems), but of course it's over 30 years old.

Still, it's a valid thing, especially if you play the game a lot. They did put out the "Swamp" board, and that should help. I agree that I'd like more scenarios before more boards--even I, who never has time/opponents to play with, have played through almost all the scenarios at least twice (although one ended on the second die roll of the game--I killed the general with mortar fire on my first roll! But I digress...
 
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James Palmer
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I think the fact that people are concerned about lack of boards and firefights with COH just shows how they already see it as real competition to established war game systems, despite COH still really being in its infancy.

Of course, COH is rapidly catching up... the Polish expansion as well as First Men In should be out by the end of the year, and Operation Mercury is supposed to be out early sometime next year... that means that a year from now, there will be what, 18 to 20 maps for this game? That's a lot to play with for someone who's willing to pick up all the sets.
 
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David Hong
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Splusmer wrote:
(although one ended on the second die roll of the game--I killed the general with mortar fire on my first roll! But I digress...


Wow, is there even a hex in starting area with LOS that sees the houses?
 
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gh0ul wrote:
Splusmer wrote:
(although one ended on the second die roll of the game--I killed the general with mortar fire on my first roll! But I digress...


Wow, is there even a hex in starting area with LOS that sees the houses?


Yes, there is one hex. I believe the general may even need to be in one specific house. Even so, the odds are fairly slim, and if it doesn't succeed on the first turn, there's plenty the Russian's can do in response.

That firefight, like the rest of the first 4, are "learning" firefights, more than anything... the later firefights are much more balanced, with less single "tricks" that will win you the battle.
 
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David desJardins
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Felkor wrote:
I believe the general may even need to be in one specific house.


Each of the two possible houses can be seen from one hex that the mortar can set up to spot from.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Felkor wrote:
I believe the general may even need to be in one specific house.


Each of the two possible houses can be seen from one hex that the mortar can set up to spot from.


Sorry guys for getting off topic. Are Light woods considered L1 and can see over light brown hills?
 
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michael kneis

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In my opinion replayability would be handled with a point system. 500 points per side and roll dice for boards, etc.. Has anyone heard whether that was in the works?
 
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James Palmer
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gh0ul wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Felkor wrote:
I believe the general may even need to be in one specific house.


Each of the two possible houses can be seen from one hex that the mortar can set up to spot from.


Sorry guys for getting off topic. Are Light woods considered L1 and can see over light brown hills?


I'm not 100% sure what you mean. Can you give an example? If you're in woods, you're not going to be able to see better over hills than if you're not in woods. Perhaps tell me what hexes on what boards you're thinking about and we can tell you if the hexes have LOS.
 
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michaelk44 wrote:
In my opinion replayability would be handled with a point system. 500 points per side and roll dice for boards, etc.. Has anyone heard whether that was in the works?


A point system is in the works. It will hopefully be available not long after SoS is released.
 
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I love Flames of War for all the books and background stuff you can read about and apply to the game.

I love this game system more than FOW, but CoH doesn't yet have all the fluff and books that FOW has.

I use a point system now to set up miniature battles on a green hexmat. Making a hybrid miniatures COH game using 15mm models. We love it.
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Justin Hoffman
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Splusmer wrote:
Felkor wrote:
[


When you compare Conflict of Heroes to other wargames when they were still only 1 year old,


I'd say the same thing for the number of boards. The original Squad Leader came with four boards (don't remember the number of scenarios--think it may have been more?). The first add-on, Cross of Iron, was published two years later, wasn't a full game, and added what? Two boards?


By now, I believe ASL has around 60 "official" boards plus a few other 3rd party geomorphic maps that can be worked into the mix (though next to no scenario creators have done so). Add to that the roughly 1,000,000,000 overlays [from 1-hex to half-board in size] out there and the customization is to the point of paralyzing.

If it's sheer quantity of scenarios that you're after, it will largely fall to the community to create, (hopefully) playtest, and publish scenarios. Look at the massive number of Command & Colors: Ancients that have been generated in the relatively brief period of time that game has been on the market. With CoH's lower accessibility threshold, as well as the greater ease of publishing (straight to the web) these days compared to the old ASL days of club-published newsletters, I think you'll start to see more firefights (of varying quality to be sure, but it's not like AH/MMP haven't published some real dogs in the ASL ouevre either) start to appear. Getting early war [Poland] and late-war German along with US & Brit [Normandy] units into the mix will also help spur along scenario development.
 
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Willem Boersma
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Sos may only have 4 new maps (and overlays), but I suppose those maps are compatible with the ones from CoH, right? Or is there any reason not to mix them???
 
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