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Subject: Big Three ASIAN Land Battles rss

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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Inspired by this thread: Big Three Pre-Napoleonic European Land Battles, I thought I'd start a discussion on important historic land battles in Asia.

Well, that, and I get to post this image again:

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia!"

Extra Credit: No European participants.

So... Who can name some historically important Asian land battles?
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Wendell
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Khalkin Gol 1939, in Mongolia/Manchuria border area, where the Soviets and their Mongolian allies under Zhukov smashed the Japanese in what at the time was the largest tank battle in history. Reduced the Japanese army's desire to tangle with the Soviets... and made the southern option a more desirable strategy for Japan.

Battle of Ain Jalut, in Palestine, in 1260. The Mamelukes checked the Mongols' advance - the first significant defeat for the Mongols, kept them from reaching Egypt.

Well, there's two off the top of my head, anyway!
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Hmm, not sure I would count Khalkin Gol (Nomonhan), it depends on whether you consider Russians European or not (I do).

OK, to be fair, here's one from me:

NAGASHINO 1575
Oda Nobunaga demonstrates the power of musketry against the Takeda cavalry. Sadly, his tactical revolution lasts all of thirty years before the Tokugawa shogunate shuts down the country in a bid to freeze time.
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Mitch Willis
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Just my two cents...

Gaugamela (331 B.C.) - Alexander the Great defeats Darius and as a result Persia, along with most of Southwest Asia, is his for the taking...

Nagashino (1575 A.D.) - Nobunaga takes out the Takeda clan and introduces Japan to "modern" warfare (the arquebus was the dominant weapon in the battle)...

Okinawa (1945 A.D.) - the Americans gain a foothold from which to launch an invasion of the Japanese Islands in the bloodiest battle in the Pacific theater. The fierce defense of the Japanese Army might've played a role in the decision to drop the atomic bombs...if they fought this hard for Okinawa, it's hard to fathom how hard they would've fought for their home islands...
 
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J.L. Robert
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Is Kadesh (c.1274 BCE) not in this discussion?

Also, was there a decisive battle in China's Wars of Unification in the 3rd Century, BCE? EDIT: Or did Qin simply steamroll over the other six kingdoms?
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David Hong
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Heres one I know.
Japanese invasion on Korea (1592AD-1598AD) - Not widely known in the west is Japan's numerous invasions of Korea over centuries. Summary: Near the end of the war, Chinese army and the Korean Army become allies to repel the Japanese forces. There were about 500,000 military deaths along with 500,000 Korean civilians.
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Here are 2 all-Asian battles of some significance:

Battle of Khanwa, March 17, 1527 AD
Moghuls under Babar defeat Rajputs under Rana Sanga

Battle of Badger Pass, 1211 AD
Mongols under Genghis Khan defeat Jin Chinese under ???

EDIT -

or the legendary battle that forms the basis of the Bhagavad Gita... the "Kurukshetra War", an 18-day battle between the Kauravas and the Pandavas fought sometime between 5561 BC and 800 BC?

The 10-year siege of Troy would be nice but the Greeks were European (aside from not being a single battle per se). By the same token one would really like to add Gaugamela here but can't.

Megiddo, Thutmose III in the 15th century BC, unfortunately, does not qualify since the Egyptians fought there. But at least it should get mention for the derivation of the term Armageddon.

Ayn Jalut and Kadesh are also certainly epic Asian battles which involved Egyptian, so non-Asian, troops.
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Jon
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Not sure if it should be a top 3 candidate, but there is always..

Sekigahara (1600) - Establishment of the Tokugawa Shogunate that will rule Japan well into the 19th century.
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Joe Steadman
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Battle of Iwo Jima
Battle of Kontum Vietnam
Battle of Chosin Reservoir

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Colin Hunter
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sdiberar wrote:
Hmm, not sure I would count Khalkin Gol (Nomonhan), it depends on whether you consider Russians European or not (I do).

OK, to be fair, here's one from me:

NAGASHINO 1575
Oda Nobunaga demonstrates the power of musketry against the Takeda cavalry. Sadly, his tactical revolution lasts all of thirty years before the Tokugawa shogunate shuts down the country in a bid to freeze time.

It is highly debatable, whether the guns at nagashino made a lot of difference. I think a more compelling argument is that the rough ground broke up the charge and a combination of a palisades and well trained Oda samurai did the rest. Kagemusha, while a great film was not an accurate depiction of the battle. In fact guns had already been used on a larger scale previously, including by the takeda.

edit: I will concede this, previously guns had not been used on mass, in the same way they were at nagashino. It is worth mentioning though that modern looks at the battle have shown that less than half the guns would fire in the weather conditions.

edit 2: Also worth noting, that nagashino did not create an instant move to guns. Gun use did increase, but it was on the increase already and while by the time of Sekigahara it had increased substantially, this was a more gradual increase and one that had been going on for some time. From memory Nagashino featured about 3000 guns, not a tremendous amount given the size of the forces.
 
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June Hwang Wah
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Ancient China: Battle of the Red Cliff, on the Yangtze River.

The combined armies of Liu Bei (Kingdom of Shu) and Sun Quan (Kingdom of Wu) defeated the invading army of Cao Cao (Kingdom of Wei) by first tricking Cao Cao into lashing his warboats together and then sending in fireboats to crash into them.
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Philip Thomas
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There was a decisive battle between the forces of Islam and the Chinese in the 8th Century in Central Asia. I think it was called Talas. Anyway the forces of Islam won, which is why Central Asia is Islamic today.

Somebody was going to win the Japanese and Chinese Civil Wars, so I don't rate battles in them too highly. Ain Jalut may be of genuine importance though.
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Marja Erwin
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In western Asia, I would suggest Samarra, Yarmuk, and Manzikert, though all three had European participants.
 
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Tony Rose
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Two I would consider was be the battle of Taierzhuan. in 1938 . It was Japan first defeat which happen after a rather dim Japanese commander advanced ignoring his flanks on his way to attack a walled city The Chinese then swarmed all over and surrounded the Japanese troops.
Same with the Battle of Changsa . The Japanese again ignored their flanks and the Chinese surrounded the Japanese forces , forcing them to fight their way out .
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Doug Adams
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Define "big".

Third Nanking in 1864 ... estimated a million troops on the field, 100000 killed, and ended the Taiping Rebellion.
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Philip Goldfarb Styrt
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How about Genghis Khan's sacking of Samarkand?

Or Mohammed (and Abu Bakr)'s campaigns against the Persians and Byzantines?

Or the fall of Sumer way back in the dawn of time to Sargon the Great?
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Bret Clifton
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What about future battles like the aforementioned Armageddon? Though I imagine Europeans will be in on that one along with everyone else.
 
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wifwendell wrote:
Khalkin Gol 1939, in Mongolia/Manchuria border area, where the Soviets and their Mongolian allies under Zhukov smashed the Japanese in what at the time was the largest tank battle in history. Reduced the Japanese army's desire to tangle with the Soviets... and made the southern option a more desirable strategy for Japan.


My wife's grandpa fought in this war, was captured by the soviets and took a rifle butt to the ear losing hearing in that ear. He just finally got it fixed actually.
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