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Subject: Clarification "Authorization of Brutal Force" rss

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Paolo Cole
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I have read the FAQ and several forum posts but still I have not found any clarification on Authorization of Brutal Force card's text.

This presidential card says:
"Action: Destroy 3 raiders, 1 heavy raider, or 1 centurion. Then roll a die, and if 2 or less, lose 1 population. Then discard this card."

A)
I understand this as:

Choose only one among:
- destroy 3 raiders
- destroy 1 heavy raider
- destroy 1 centurion

B)
while my friends understand this as:

Choose one among:
- destroy 3 raiders and 1 heavy raider
- destroy 1 centurion

and obviously were accusing me of being a cylon since I sponsored the less favourable interpretation of the card devil


C)
There can also be another interpretation:

Choose one among:
- destroy 3 raiders and 1 heavy raider
- destroy 3 raiders and 1 centurion


Anyone has official or personal intepretations?

BTW, I imagine that it is possible to play "Strategic Planning" after playing this card, reducing population loss probability to 0.

Thanks,
Paolo
 
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Chris J Davis
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You interpretation is correct. If your friends were correct, the card would be worded:

"Either destroy 3 raiders and 1 heavy raider, or destroy 1 centurian."
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Tor Sverre Lund
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No doubt about it: Choose one of the three.
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brian
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Interpretation A is correct.

And yes, you may play a Strategic Planning card to guarantee no population loss. Rolling a 1 will net you a 3 which is a pass.
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Carl Bussema
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Brian, did you ever clarify (since you seem to be the one bugging Corey ) whether you can destroy "up to 3" raiders? Particularly the '0 raiders' case is interesting as a (very) desperate unrevealed-Cylon-president attempt to win the game.
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John Hugo
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Gawain wrote:
No doubt about it: Choose one of the three.
Agree
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Andy Latto
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InfoCynic wrote:
Brian, did you ever clarify (since you seem to be the one bugging Corey ) whether you can destroy "up to 3" raiders? Particularly the '0 raiders' case is interesting as a (very) desperate unrevealed-Cylon-president attempt to win the game.


This is really three separate questions:

1. If there are only one or two raiders on the board, can you play this to destroy them, or is the card only good for destroying exactly 3 raiders?

2. If there are zero raiders on the board, can you play this to destroy zero raiders, for the population loss? (Useful only for Cylons, or humans trying to get population down below 4 so that the sympathizer is on their side).

3. If there are raiders on the board, must you destroy three or all of them, whichever is more, or can you choose to destroy a smaller number of raiders, including none at all? (Useful only to Cylons, I think).

I would rule "Yes" on 1 and 2, and "No" on 3, but I have no strong arguments or official information; just how I would interpret it.
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pablito76 wrote:
I have read the FAQ and several forum posts but still I have not found any clarification on Authorization of Brutal Force card's text.

This presidential card says:
"Action: Destroy 3 raiders, 1 heavy raider, or 1 centurion. Then roll a die, and if 2 or less, lose 1 population. Then discard this card."

A)
I understand this as:

Choose only one among:
- destroy 3 raiders
- destroy 1 heavy raider
- destroy 1 centurion

B)
while my friends understand this as:

Choose one among:
- destroy 3 raiders and 1 heavy raider
- destroy 1 centurion

and obviously were accusing me of being a cylon since I sponsored the less favourable interpretation of the card devil


C)
There can also be another interpretation:

Choose one among:
- destroy 3 raiders and 1 heavy raider
- destroy 3 raiders and 1 centurion


Anyone has official or personal intepretations?

BTW, I imagine that it is possible to play "Strategic Planning" after playing this card, reducing population loss probability to 0.

Thanks,
Paolo


A would be my answer as well. BTW, were you a cylon?



andylatto wrote:
InfoCynic wrote:
Brian, did you ever clarify (since you seem to be the one bugging Corey ) whether you can destroy "up to 3" raiders? Particularly the '0 raiders' case is interesting as a (very) desperate unrevealed-Cylon-president attempt to win the game.


This is really three separate questions:

1. If there are only one or two raiders on the board, can you play this to destroy them, or is the card only good for destroying exactly 3 raiders?

2. If there are zero raiders on the board, can you play this to destroy zero raiders, for the population loss? (Useful only for Cylons, or humans trying to get population down below 4 so that the sympathizer is on their side).

3. If there are raiders on the board, must you destroy three or all of them, whichever is more, or can you choose to destroy a smaller number of raiders, including none at all? (Useful only to Cylons, I think).

I would rule "Yes" on 1 and 2, and "No" on 3, but I have no strong arguments or official information; just how I would interpret it.
Meh. To me, the main reason to play this as a cylon would be to deny it to the next president. Taking out a heavy raider/cent practically for free is like deflecting a nuke. A slow nuke that takes several turns to take down the whole human fleet at that. A 1/8 chance to hit, but gauranteed to hit if SP were played isn't very reliable at all.
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InfoCynic wrote:
Brian, did you ever clarify (since you seem to be the one bugging Corey ) whether you can destroy "up to 3" raiders? Particularly the '0 raiders' case is interesting as a (very) desperate unrevealed-Cylon-president attempt to win the game.


Billy: Madam President, If we're going to act we'd better act now!

Roslin: Very Well, With this Executive order I'll sign this order Authorizing Brutal Force!

Billy: That's Great! How many did we take down?

Roslin: *Plays Boomer Cylon Card* Just one... *Blam!*
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brian
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andylatto wrote:
InfoCynic wrote:
Brian, did you ever clarify (since you seem to be the one bugging Corey ) whether you can destroy "up to 3" raiders? Particularly the '0 raiders' case is interesting as a (very) desperate unrevealed-Cylon-president attempt to win the game.


This is really three separate questions:

1. If there are only one or two raiders on the board, can you play this to destroy them, or is the card only good for destroying exactly 3 raiders?

2. If there are zero raiders on the board, can you play this to destroy zero raiders, for the population loss? (Useful only for Cylons, or humans trying to get population down below 4 so that the sympathizer is on their side).

3. If there are raiders on the board, must you destroy three or all of them, whichever is more, or can you choose to destroy a smaller number of raiders, including none at all? (Useful only to Cylons, I think).

I would rule "Yes" on 1 and 2, and "No" on 3, but I have no strong arguments or official information; just how I would interpret it.

I never asked a question because it was never a question in my mind.

You do as much of the cards as you can. So there should be no reason why you couldn't use this card if you had less than 3 raiders. If there is only 1, and you want to use a AoBF on it, go for it.

Now what is intriguing and deserves clarification is 1) if there are no Cylons on board, can you use it to burnt he card/lose population? And 2) Can you choose to destroy less even if there are 3 out there.
 
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It came up in one of the PBF games--obviously not one you were in then.

It's not a great action but as an XO pre-reveal (or if you happen to have locked away all the humans... which one was that, game 8?) it might be amusing.
 
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InfoCynic wrote:
It came up in one of the PBF games--obviously not one you were in then.

It's not a great action but as an XO pre-reveal (or if you happen to have locked away all the humans... which one was that, game 8?) it might be amusing.

I sent the question through in case Corey doesn't see this thread. Since it was semi-related, also asked how you deal with quorum cards in the solo variant that you play on others.

Hopefully, I will have the answer in a week.
 
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Paolo Cole
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Thank you all for the answer.

Next game I will clarify the card to all participants BEFORE DEALING LOYALTY CARDS :-)


pablito76 wrote:

and obviously were accusing me of being a cylon since I sponsored the less favourable interpretation of the card devil


ackmondual wrote:

A would be my answer as well. BTW, were you a cylon?


No, I was not, but they were starting to suspect me.
And this is the reason why I did not insist on my "A" interpretation.

InfoCynic wrote:
Brian, did you ever clarify (since you seem to be the one bugging Corey ) whether you can destroy "up to 3" raiders? Particularly the '0 raiders' case is interesting as a (very) desperate unrevealed-Cylon-president attempt to win the game.


I would also say that it is possible.


Bye,
Paolo
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pablito76 wrote:
Thank you all for the answer.

Next game I will clarify the card to all participants BEFORE DEALING LOYALTY CARDS :-)


pablito76 wrote:

and obviously were accusing me of being a cylon since I sponsored the less favourable interpretation of the card devil


ackmondual wrote:

A would be my answer as well. BTW, were you a cylon?


No, I was not, but they were starting to suspect me.
And this is the reason why I did not insist on my "A" interpretation.

hmmm, could that be a new line of attack/defense? Say something that the rules/FAQ/errata doesn't cover unambiguously and accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a cylon. Just hope everyone else doesn't happen to disagree with you.
 
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My email and Corey's response below...

ColtsFan76 wrote:
Hey Corey-

This one is being asked on BGG. In regards to the Authorization of Brutal Force, a couple of points:

1) Do you have to meet one of the "destroy" conditions on the card in order to play it? In other words, if there is only 2 Raiders on board, can you play it and destroy them? Or must there be at least 3 on board (or meet one of the other conditions)?

2) Along those lines, if NONE of the Cylons are on board, can you play this and hope for the Population loss? (Perhaps a known but unrevealed Cylon would want to do this).

3) If there are Cylons on board, can you choose to play this card and then not destroy the Raiders? (Again, perhaps the Cylon would like to burn the card to the discard pile without actually destroying the ships).

Semi-related - in the solo variant: How do you play Quorum cards that are given to other players - such as Assign VP. Can you still play them for the 2 political cards?


mendosa wrote:
1) You are not required to have all 3 in play in order to play this card.
2) No, you must at least destroy something with this card.
3) No, you must at least destroy something with this card.


During solo play, you may assign these cards to yourself.


I may add these answers to the next FAQ, thanks!
-Corey Konieczka
Fantasy Flight Games
Game Design and Development
 
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So you have to have some legal target and then perform as much of the card as you are able to.
 
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InfoCynic wrote:
So you have to have some legal target and then perform as much of the card as you are able to.

That seems to be a good summary.
 
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It's a little odd, in that elsewhere in the game you are allowed to make a choice if you cannot perform it ("the president discards 3 cards" when she has none), but oh well.
 
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InfoCynic wrote:
It's a little odd, in that elsewhere in the game you are allowed to make a choice if you cannot perform it ("the president discards 3 cards" when she has none), but oh well.

Call it the difference between Crisis cards and Quorum cards....
 
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
InfoCynic wrote:
It's a little odd, in that elsewhere in the game you are allowed to make a choice if you cannot perform it ("the president discards 3 cards" when she has none), but oh well.

Call it the difference between Crisis cards and Quorum cards....
Mainly, crisis cards are typically forced upon you (can't always scout everything) whereas Qcards, you play them voluntarily, and even get to look at what you're playing before you commit to playing it.
 
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