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Subject: Veni Vidi Ludi - Wargames math trade - Discussion Thread rss

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Veni Vidi Ludi Wargames math trade
Discussion Thread

Trade GeekList: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/44309 (opened)
Request Geeklist: http://boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/44306

Key Dates & Times (EASTERN STANDARD TIME)
Date Open For Submission: Friday July 17th (5:00pm)
Date Closed For Submission: Thursday, July 23th (7:00 pm)
Date Open For Want List Submission: Thursday, July 23th (7:00 pm)
Date Closed For Want List Submission: Sunday, July 26th (7:00 pm)
Results about an hour thereafter!

Use of the On-Line Want List Generator (OLWLG) is required for this event (please remember to tip JeffyJeff some GG for his support).
OLWLG Help: http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/OLWLG

Software Used: TradeMaximizer 1.4 with duplicate protection. SEED=7654321, ITERATIONS=100, METRIC=USERS-TRADING

Rules:

1) This math trade is open to everyone

2) When listing a game, only Wargames, as defined as games with Wargame as a category or tagged as wargames can be listed with one exception, see #3

3) You can list 1 non-wargame for every 3 wargames that you list. So if you listed 6 wargames, you can list 2 non-wargame.

4) War miniatures, Gift certificates, Geekgold, War related DVDs etc are all permitted.

5) Please do not delete or remove items from your entries once you have submitted them. You can always submit a blank want list for an entry if you've traded it away before the deadline.

6) There is no list cap; therefore, you can submit an unlimited number of items. If there is something you really hope to see someone post; please list it in the Request GeekList.

7) Gift certificate and GG arbitrage is not permitted. Cash offerings will not be permitted.

8) Non-game entries (DVDs/CDs/RPGs/etc) must be listed as "Outside the Scope of BGG" (game id 23953), "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" (game id 5985) or "Miscellaneous Game Merchandise" (game id 22104) and must include the +altname+ brief description -altname- format in the description of your item. Use of the +altname+ brief description -altname- will not work with other listings; therefore, if you are offering an expansion for which there is no entry in BGG (for instance expansion cards handed out at Essen) and NOT the base game, please use "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" to help avoid confusion.

9) In your entries you are required to describe the condition of the components & box as best as possible for all items you are trading (ie. New (In Shrink)/Sweetners included). For games which have multiple languages and editions, you also required to specify the language and edition of your item. For games which are not being sent in shrink you are required to inventory the components and list anything missing. Do not assume that the game is complete, even if you have never played the game and just removed the shrink. Please list if the game is coming from a smoke free environment or not. If the game and/or expansion you are listing is a "Print & Play" make that clear in the description (give specifics what it was printed on, mounted on, etc). If you are listing an expansion if you reference the base game in the description be clear one way or the other if you are including the base game or not. Do not include a link to the base game unless you are including it (ie. if you include a link to the base game, you will be required to send the base game). If you do not list a condition, missing components or smoking details the game will be considered to be in excellent to mint condition, complete and from a non-smoking home.

10) Shipping: Describe your shipping policy clearly (ie. listing to where you will/will not be willing to ship and how much of the shipping you would be willing to cover, if any). You must cover at least the first 5$ of the items you ship out. If you do not state a shipping policy it will be assumed you are willing to ship anywhere in the world for free.

11) Sweeteners are to be listed using the GAMEID formatting (example Coloretto). If you aren't aware of how to do this it's simply [ G A M E I D = XXXX ] minus the spaces. To find the game id simply search the game and at the right hand side of the games page is listed the game id. For example, Coloretto's game id is 5782. If you don't use this format your sweeteners won't show up in the OLWLG properly.

12) If you've been reported as a bad trader, you cannot participate. If you try to, your entries will be removed. If you see someone posting entries who is a bad trader, please let me know.

13) Please do NOT include links to other games in your entry unless you are actually including them as a sweetener. Again, if you include a link to a game in your description you will be required to ship that game.

14) Please do NOT include links to where you are selling the item/game (example BGG Marketplace link/E-bay link). This makes your entry look like you are only trying to sell your game and not looking to trade it. As this is a Trade list, items here should be those you are looking to trade not advertise for sale.

15) You will be required to periodically check your entries for Comments, and respond to them as appropriate. This is a very easy thing to do. Just click on "My Geek", then "Contributions" and finally on "GeekList Items". You will then be able to see your items without having to find them in the trade GeekList along with any comments that people have made. You will only need to go back to the trade GeekList to make adjustments or answer questions if there were any.

16) You will be required to submit your want list using the OLWLG. It is best to work on your want list and submit it early, so you don't miss the deadline. If you need to make changes after it is submitted, you can make the necessary changes and then resubmit it any time during the submission period. If you will be unavailable during the want list submission period but still wish to participate, contact me directly and we can discuss alternatives. Creating want lists is not the same as submitting them. To submit them you will need to click on the "Submit My Wants" button. If you're not sure how to find this, consult the documentation referenced above or ask in the discussion thread. When you submit your want lists, you will receive a confirming GeekMail. If you don't get one, your want lists haven't been submitted. Your want lists in the GeekMail may be truncated - this is fine.
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Sylvain Martel
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Official summary: http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/44309-officialsummary.txt
 
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Sylvain Martel
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Official results are up! Here:http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/trades-summary.cgi?listid=... (sorry, I'm not at home and I forgot how to do the link properly in BGG.

Official want list here: http://bgg.activityclub.org/olwlg/44309-officialwants.txt

I will make them official when I get back home in a couple of hours and if no one finds any errors in them.
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Sylvain Martel
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Reserved
 
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Sylvain Martel
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davidchujr wrote:
Good going...

You may want to reserved the first few message slots for status and results. It makes it easier to find.
I will delete this post so that its not taking up those slots...

-David


Dang you people are fast! I was posting the various threads when I thought about reserving but it was already too late, hehe.

 
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David Chu
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Yeah, I try to always start my AM with a cup of BGG laugh

Thanks for running this.
I love wargames but have few people locally with the aptitude to play...
On the plus side, most wargames (chit and counter type) are light, so world wide shipping isn't going to be that bad.

-David
 
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Ahiksking wrote:
Shame I can't make it now. I was expecting an August start time as I'm now away until 1st August, so no chance of being able to get involved.

Good luck however and I hope to make the next one.


Yeah, I saw that some would have prefered August but I couldn't do it at that time. Hopefully there will be another one not too far in the future.

Kinwolf
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Chris Geggus
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Kinwolf wrote:
Ahiksking wrote:
Shame I can't make it now. I was expecting an August start time as I'm now away until 1st August, so no chance of being able to get involved.

Good luck however and I hope to make the next one.


Yeah, I saw that some would have prefered August but I couldn't do it at that time. Hopefully there will be another one not too far in the future.

Kinwolf


Thanks (and sorry to steal the premier slot). Maybe I'll remove comment later tonight.
 
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J.L. Robert
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I'm looking forward to this one.
 
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I haven't done a math trade, but for wargame goodness I am game.
 
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Matt Sturm
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Qualtification question
If a main game is tagged as a wargame, but expansions/supplements are not, can I list the expansions in this trade? For example, BattleLore carries the wargame tag, but the expansion packs do not, thus if I list only BL, then I cannot list even one expansion without violating rule 2.

Also, not to complain, but it seems you would catch more wargame flies if you allowed more non-wargame honey, even if you just limited it to a 3:1 wargame to non-wargame ratio. I want non-wargames and I have wargames I'd like to trade away for them. If I stand only a small chance of snagging non-wargame items from the trade I'm less inclined to participate. I'm just sayin'.

-Matt
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King Friday wrote:
If a main game is tagged as a wargame, but expansions/supplements are not, can I list the expansions in this trade? For example, BattleLore carries the wargame tag, but the expansion packs do not, thus if I list only BL, then I cannot list even one expansion without violating rule 2.

Also, not to complain, but it seems you would catch more wargame flies if you allowed more non-wargame honey, even if you just limited it to a 3:1 wargame to non-wargame ratio. I want non-wargames and I have wargames I'd like to trade away for them. If I stand only a small chance of snagging non-wargame items from the trade I'm less inclined to participate. I'm just sayin'.

-Matt


Expansions to wargame that are not tagged as wargames are fine, it's probably just an omission in the entry. They expand a wargame after all

As for the ratio, I personally don't mind a 3:1, 6:2, 9:3 etc but I know some would bark at it, so I was trying for a compromise as I do want some non-wargames in there. If the majority tells me they wouldn't mind a 3:1, 6:2 etc, without the hard limit of 1, I'll remove it.
 
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Evan Seifert
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Kinwolf wrote:
King Friday wrote:
If a main game is tagged as a wargame, but expansions/supplements are not, can I list the expansions in this trade? For example, BattleLore carries the wargame tag, but the expansion packs do not, thus if I list only BL, then I cannot list even one expansion without violating rule 2.

Also, not to complain, but it seems you would catch more wargame flies if you allowed more non-wargame honey, even if you just limited it to a 3:1 wargame to non-wargame ratio. I want non-wargames and I have wargames I'd like to trade away for them. If I stand only a small chance of snagging non-wargame items from the trade I'm less inclined to participate. I'm just sayin'.

-Matt


Expansions to wargame that are not tagged as wargames are fine, it's probably just an omission in the entry. They expand a wargame after all

As for the ratio, I personally don't mind a 3:1, 6:2, 9:3 etc but I know some would bark at it, so I was trying for a compromise as I do want some non-wargames in there. If the majority tells me they wouldn't mind a 3:1, 6:2 etc, without the hard limit of 1, I'll remove it.


I would prefer not having a hard limit of 1.
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KAS
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I will post some games either way, but 3:1 ratio (i.e. no hard limit of 1) would likely increase my want list significantly. Thanks
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Kinwolf wrote:
King Friday wrote:
If a main game is tagged as a wargame, but expansions/supplements are not, can I list the expansions in this trade? For example, BattleLore carries the wargame tag, but the expansion packs do not, thus if I list only BL, then I cannot list even one expansion without violating rule 2.

Also, not to complain, but it seems you would catch more wargame flies if you allowed more non-wargame honey, even if you just limited it to a 3:1 wargame to non-wargame ratio. I want non-wargames and I have wargames I'd like to trade away for them. If I stand only a small chance of snagging non-wargame items from the trade I'm less inclined to participate. I'm just sayin'.

-Matt


Expansions to wargame that are not tagged as wargames are fine, it's probably just an omission in the entry. They expand a wargame after all

As for the ratio, I personally don't mind a 3:1, 6:2, 9:3 etc but I know some would bark at it, so I was trying for a compromise as I do want some non-wargames in there. If the majority tells me they wouldn't mind a 3:1, 6:2 etc, without the hard limit of 1, I'll remove it.


Go with what you started. It's YOUR math trade. Someone else could have stepped up to the plate, and been more lenient or stringent. But no one else did.

I'd rather a moderater set his/her guidelines and stick with them than having to re-read instructions repeatedly for changes.
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J.L.Robert wrote:


It's YOUR math trade. Someone else could have stepped up to the plate, and been more lenient or stringent. But no one else did.

I'd rather a moderater set his/her guidelines and stick with them than having to re-read instructions repeatedly for changes.


That first sentence tipped the scale. devil

Hard-limit removed like I wanted at first(see original post here:http://boardgamegeeks.com/thread/423714).

So simply stick to a 3:1 ratio.

My first inclination was 3:1 ratio without hard limit anyway. It's just that I remembered some people last time that would have prefered 100% wargames and I was heading for a compromise, but I truly think we'll get more interesting trades that way, and most entry will be wargames still. If someone tries to get by the ratio and I miss it, simply send me a small geekmail.

I'll see from the results at the end if I was right and will adjust for potential future math trade if needed.

This will be the only change, it's now set in stone. arrrh

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Kinwolf wrote:
This will be the only change, it's now set in stone.
Erosion
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J.L.Robert wrote:
Go with what you started. It's YOUR math trade. Someone else could have stepped up to the plate, and been more lenient or stringent. But no one else did.

I'd rather a moderater set his/her guidelines and stick with them than having to re-read instructions repeatedly for changes.


Totally agree that the moderator should go with whatever they want.

However, if the goal of a particular MT is to maximize trades, I am not sure I see the downside to allowing a certain ratio (i.e. 3:1) of wargames to non-wargames. Would it not be that case that: (1) People who have wargames they want to trade could list them either way, (2) People who are looking for non-wargames have more options for their want lists, (3) Trade percentages would likely increase.

I could add 20+ wargames, to the list, but if all of my trade options are just for other wargames, my want list would be very short and result in a lower probability of successful trades.

Thoughts?
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Stupid Question: Once this MT is finished would it be possible to delete all the non-wargames and rerun the trade to see how it would change? I know it would not be the same as not having the deleted games in the first place, but would this be a close approximation or totally skew the results?
 
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Dan Owsen
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The downside of adding non-wargames is more chaff to sort through.
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Joe Lott
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Would of preferred purity.
 
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Kinwolf wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:


It's YOUR math trade.


That first sentence tipped the scale. devil

Hard-limit removed like I wanted at first(see original post here:http://boardgamegeeks.com/thread/423714).

So simply stick to a 3:1 ratio.



Kinda odd that you took that one sentence, then proceeded to chuck out every other word I wrote to bend in the wind.

Still, same applies...your MT, your call. I can only hope that you can follow through with your last line, too:

Kinwolf wrote:
This will be the only change, it's now set in stone. arrrh
 
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kneumann wrote:

However, if the goal of a particular MT is to maximize trades, I am not sure I see the downside to allowing a certain ratio (i.e. 3:1) of wargames to non-wargames. Would it not be that case that: (1) People who have wargames they want to trade could list them either way, (2) People who are looking for non-wargames have more options for their want lists, (3) Trade percentages would likely increase.

I could add 20+ wargames, to the list, but if all of my trade options are just for other wargames, my want list would be very short and result in a lower probability of successful trades.

Thoughts?


Is the goal REALLY to maximize trades? Or is it to trade wargames? The two are not necessarily the same.

Does someone want to number crunch, determine what percentage of the lots listed are non-wargames, and compare that with the percentage of the total items traded?

I'm really hoping that we don't wind up with lists of crap wargames like Kriegspiel, just so people can list yet more copies of Ming Dynasty, Atlanteon, or other Tanga staples.
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J.L.Robert wrote:


Is the goal REALLY to maximize trades? Or is it to trade wargames? The two are not necessarily the same.

Does someone want to number crunch, determine what percentage of the lots listed are non-wargames, and compare that with the percentage of the total items traded?

I'm really hoping that we don't wind up with lists of crap wargames like Kriegspiel, just so people can list yet more copies of Ming Dynasty, Atlanteon, or other Tanga staples.


Well, the general goal is to promote/favor wargames trading. To have a trade list consisting with a net majority of them while allowing people who might not want more wargames, but have some they'd like to trade, to have a little bit of choice and list those games thus creating more trades for everyone.

The last wargame math trade, where the 3:1 ratio was also allowed, I personally got a nice Victory Lost and RAN and gave away Powergrid and a wargame(forgot which one). To me it's one more trade that was made because of the ratio and was glad for it. The thing I think is to keep the ratio high enough so that we get alot more wargames than regular one but not too high that people list trash games just to fill the ratio.

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Page one, and the moderator has already had to pass several morale checks.
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