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Subject: Bear Trap / Quagmire on yourself? rss

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Conor Sipe
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Has anyone has ever played either Bear Trap or Quagmire on yourself to try and void your hand of your opponent's cards? Needless to say, you would have to have a pretty hopeless hand to try this. My friend and I were discussing it in a game where he had of 2 US (including Quagmire) and 5 USSR cards at the start of the action rounds. Just curious if anyone thought this would be a viable tactic?
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Kristian Thy
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The positive would be that you get 4 ops and decides for yourself when to play it. I could see it work, especially if you're saddled with a disastrous hand.
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Philip Thomas
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I don't remember playing it because I wanted to, but I have many times been forced to play the card on myself because I don't want to or can't space race it. That is generally because I have a card I do want to space race. Playing Bear Trap/Quagmire allows me to get rid of that card a different way, its true.

However this is a very dangerous tactic as you effectively give your opponent two turns in a row, which is probably enough to take over at least one stability 2 battleground you currently control, besides the many other uses it can be put to.

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R.T. Sloan
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The 5 USSR cards would have to be some pretty bad ones. Giving up at least half a turns worth of actions is a very steep price to pay.
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Steve Bauer
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I have done it several times.

It is very dangerous because of the open ended nature of the cards effect but there are hands where you have to.

I did it the other day as I was holding We will bury you, Quagmire and lone gunman, plus 2 other USSR events I didn't want to play. Defcon was two so I didn't really have a choice. It only went one round so I was able to unload We will bury you and my opponent played Containment as his last action so I got to space race Loan gunman. It saved the game.

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Steve Vondra
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Philip Thomas wrote:
I don't remember playing it because I wanted to, but I have many times been forced to play the card on myself because I don't want to or can't space race it. That is generally because I have a card I do want to space race. Playing Bear Trap/Quagmire allows me to get rid of that card a different way, its true.

However this is a very dangerous tactic as you effectively give your opponent two turns in a row, which is probably enough to take over at least one stability 2 battleground you currently control, besides the many other uses it can be put to.

There's the added danger of not making the roll to end the effects of the card. I've played more than one game where the effects lasted 5 or more actions! I don't care how many bad cards you want to dump, that's way too many unanswered actions you're "gifting" your opponent. Of course I've also seen it go away with the first die roll.
Ya pays yer money...


edit: what they said while I was typing (dang two finger hunt n' peck)
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Riku Riekkinen
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I play them on myself very often (more than I try to space them). Has backfired a couple of times, but its very good way to get rid of unwanted enemy cards.
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Jason Sherlock
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Done it to myself. Better to have it happen at the time of one's choosing than to happen at a critical time.
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Conor Sipe
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Thanks for all the responses. I think I'd be loathe to try it unless there were some seriously bad cards in my hand!
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Bob Dylhead
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sometimes.....
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Michael
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I just had my opponent play it on himself and take 5 or 6 rolls before the effect ended. Unfortunately I had nothing but crappy cards in my hand so all I was able to do was minimze the harm to myself. Because his events went off (when I had to play them), and my events didn't (when he had to discard), my board situation actually got worse that turn.
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Jay Gauthier
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Just remember that Bear Trap / Quagmire effect does not end with the end of a turn.
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Anders Egneus
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Did it last week actually, got a pretty disastrous hand as the Soviets in T7.

I think I had

Bear Trap,
Five Year Plan,
East European Unrest,
John Paul Elected Pope,(I had the upper hand in Europe)
Nixon playes china card (US had China card & VP lead),
Voice of America,
Puppet Governments,
one USSR 1 OPS
Olympics


Enough discards to roll all turn, so I decided to risk it.
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Björn
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Yes, I did once as the US... But I'm pretty sure I we played with the wrong rules back then... I'm not sure if I would do it again now that I know how the card works. Probably only if I was REALLY desperate.
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Basar Cenik
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I do it all the time but that's probably because I've never had it last more than 3 turns.
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Koko Ksoso
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As risky as it is, I knew playing Quagmire/Bear Trap on yourself can sometimes help to get rid of some nasty stuff. But I wouldn't think it could simply save the game for me.

I've just played one as US and in turn 6 or 7 I've been left only with Quagmire and Lone Gunman in my hand. I couldn't hold any of them, and DEFCON was at 2. Playing Quagmire let me survive to the next turn and do something with the Gunman (well, actually I held it to the end of the game :-)

Next turn, I lost 2 or 3 action rounds trying to free myself, but I did stay in the game and even managed to win with +2 VPs after the final scoring.
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Matthew Jones
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Can someone detail exactly what happens when you quagmire/bear trap yourself? Do you get to use the ops points before the event goes off?

Also, when you break quagmire/bear trap, do you get to play a card for the ops points/event before the other player goes, does he get two turns in a row?
 
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Jay Sachs
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coolguymatt wrote:
Can someone detail exactly what happens when you quagmire/bear trap yourself? Do you get to use the ops points before the event goes off?


Since you get to choose event or ops first, presumably you'd choose Ops. But technically it's up to you

Quote:
Also, when you break quagmire/bear trap, do you get to play a card for the ops points/event before the other player goes, does he get two turns in a row?


Nope. Your discard + roll counts as your action.
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Ioan Mitiu
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Quite often/very rarely
jaysachs wrote:
coolguymatt wrote:
Can someone detail exactly what happens when you quagmire/bear trap yourself? Do you get to use the ops points before the event goes off?


Since you get to choose event or ops first, presumably you'd choose Ops. But technically it's up to you


This is something which I'm curious about : what if you decide to play enemy event first ? Programmed outcome on Wargameroom seems to be the same ...

As a response to thread-question : I BearTrapped myself quite often ( MidWar tend really favor US ... and if you get Grain Sales To Soviets, FYP and Voice of America in the hand at same time Bear Teap is actually sort of a blessing ... ) but, as long as NORAD is usually active in my US-games, only very-very rarely Quagmired myself ... whistle
 
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Michael Patnik
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Recently in a game against a strong opponent, I Bear Trapped myself. I was able to build a significant VP and board advantage by turn 6. I was under Red Scare / Purge and we were engaged in a battle for Africa. I was pretty sure that he would have to spend an AR scoring Africa and was hoping he had to waste a round mitigating or spacing a problem card. The trick was that I had nothing to discard to the trap because of the -1 and had to skip the last two rounds and discard at the beginning of the next turn.

My hand was Grain Sales, VOA, the Pope (Poland at 3IP) and Bear Trap at the time. Since I was under Scare/Purge, I couldn't space any of the 2 ops. If I spaced trap, I would have to play VOA and the Pope for 1 op each.

This seemed very bad for me, but I wound up winning even after skipping the final 2 ARs of turn 6 and the first AR of turn 7. (my other hands were quite good) Does anyone else have any thoughts on how to handle those 4 cards without trapping myself?
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Trevor Godley
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With those 4 cards, Red Scare and no China Card you made the right play. If you had the China Card you could also space Bear Trap, play the China Card and Pope John Paul (who really isn't that bad), and hold Grain Sales and VOA. Another problem with Bear Trapping yourself with those cards in your hand is if your opponent SALTs back Red Scare and headlines it next turn then you can get pretty screwed since you are still Bear Trapped and at least 3 of your cards are 2 ops. Plus, even if you get out of the trap you still have to deal with 2 of VOA, Grain Sales and Pope John Paul, which still can't be spaced, and you might have drawn additional bad cards.

TL;DR: Your move works unless your opponent has SALT, in which case you get FUCKED.
 
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Jim Butler
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I once Quagmired myself. My opponent played Grain Sales, and I was stuck with Five Year Plan, and CIA, meaning I was forced to play CIA at some point during the turn. I played Five Year Plan in AR1, hoping it wouldn't pull CIA, and then when all I had left was Quagmire and CIA, I played Quagmire.

Yeah, it was painful, but better than losing outright.
 
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King in Green
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I have bear trapped myself several times when my remaining cards are worse than an empty action round. Try to create a crisis for your opponent with the 3ops I guess...
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