Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
8 Posts

7 Ages» Forums » Rules

Subject: Use of leaders rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Retired Hurt

Brussels
Unspecified
msg tools
I have a problem with leaders' utility.

A named leader's presence would be just another complication in the game if he can't help his country.
While Ar, St or Ad leaders can always prove useful, some are more limited :

I've never seen Cheng Ho being useful. The Ming have enough work to do fighting Mongols, Japanese, Sung and/or Thang on Chinese soil.

The two Venetian leaders, too, are of limited impact, unless you use Ambitious Leaders to get Galileo in age 3.

Worse still, summoning Aristotle or Pythogoras is a shot in your foot, as Greece will drift into Age 3, losing their precious artefacts.
and BTW what use do you have of *both* of them ?

In a new edition, care should be taken to make every leader useful..
For example, give Egypt a "cities-1" GP source, so that Tuthmosis' ability can be used (Egyptians are a trifle weak for a '7' empire anyway).
Suppress Pythagoras or exchange him for Perkles (Ad ?).

And add some power to Ex leaders, who aren't very useful in most cases. I'd suggest they could remove disorder while passing through an area.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chuck P
Canada
Coquitlam
BC
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree that some leader types are more useful on average. However, all the leader types are useful. I would make the case that any one of the leader types can be the best choice in particular situations - and that many times, any one of the leader types can be next to useless. Oftentimes, I'll toss back the St or Ar because I really need an Ex or Bu.

Explorers in particular can be the leader that I'm hoping to draw. The doubling of range is great for trading (and can be critical for age 3 American empires to get boats & horses), and the improved movement of a stack of units with an explorer can really calm down an unruly area.

There's no need to "make every leader useful." One of the great things about this admirable game is its unbalanced nature.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Retired Hurt

Brussels
Unspecified
msg tools
How can Ex leaders be useful for trading to the Incas or similar ? They can't trade overseas.

But anyway I'm not speaking of leaders you pick at random, but rather of named leaders. A named leader who you won't want to raise is just another useless counter. Usually, Greece uses Homer as their first leader (works well with their Artefacts VC), then if they get another one they will pick at random rather than raise Aristote. Same with Venice / Galileo (no dark times in age 4) or Persia / Zoroaster (Persia is a very active empire, seldom used for Destiny actions). And that second Ch'in Philospph : he is of very limited use (concurrence with another Ph-enabled land) and I'd rather try and get an Artist.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Woolley
United States
California
flag msg tools
Merrimac wrote:
How can Ex leaders be useful for trading to the Incas or similar ? They can't trade overseas.


While the Incas can't trade across ocean areas (until age 4), they can trade across the Bering Sea (which is a sea area), or across the crossing area which links Alaska (in America) to Koryaskoye (in Asia).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chuck P
Canada
Coquitlam
BC
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Precisely. An Ex with 2 or 3 units legs it up through NA then trades with Japan (or any other empire in the region). Double range helps.

ideasmith wrote:
Merrimac wrote:
How can Ex leaders be useful for trading to the Incas or similar ? They can't trade overseas.


While the Incas can't trade across ocean areas (until age 4), they can trade across the Bering Sea (which is a sea area), or across the crossing area which links Alaska (in America) to Koryaskoye (in Asia).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Retired Hurt

Brussels
Unspecified
msg tools
So Ex leaders are useful to Incas, in precise situations (in age 3, you'll still need a 6-zone path, which isn't easy).
But this doesn't change anything to the fact that the choice of named leaders is sometimes a bit strange. several namedEx leaders are of very limited use (Polo, Cheng Ho, ..). and that's what I meant first. Please give us useful leaders.

NB : if i had to mention but one Ex leader in real history, it would be Ibn Batuta; Where is he ?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Woolley
United States
California
flag msg tools
Merrimac wrote:
So Ex leaders are useful to Incas, in precise situations (in age 3, you'll still need a 6-zone path, which isn't easy).


That depends. If Japan controls the Sea of Okhtosk, and nobody's playing the Chimu (both quite plausible), then moving an explorer into Ecuador is trivial.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chaim Kaufmann
United States
Bethlehem
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Merrimac wrote:


....
Worse still, summoning Aristotle or Pythogoras is a shot in your foot, as Greece will drift into Age 3, losing their precious artefacts.
and BTW what use do you have of *both* of them ?

....


This is a good point. Maybe posession of an Sc should allow you to preserve an artefact (even though you lose the Sc. Say it's his "monument").

Powering up Ex's would not be bad either--as the two-turn Inca jaunt suggests, why not say that they do NOT have to leave anyone in the area where they started?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.