Dennis Firth
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I'm new to the game and have a couple of questions. These may be in the rules somewhere as I think they are pretty clear on most things.

1) The Robb Stark leader card says, "Attacking Knights in your army add +3 to your combat strength instead of +2." Does this bonus apply to supporting Knights?

2) The same kind of question could be asked about Renly Baratheon also. It says, "If you win this battle, you may upgrade one of your Footmen to a Knight. That Footman must have participated in the battle as either attacker or defender." Are supporting Footmen "participating" in the battle? Could one of them be upgraded?

3) Situation: Two Knights of Tyrell are attacking an area with one defending Footmen. There is also a routed defending Footman from an earlier battle who retreated into the area. (I know he provides 0 defense but he is present in the attacked area.) Because of defensive support, the combat factors are equal (5 to 5 in this case). Tyrell uses the Ser Loras Tyrell card which allows you to "Immediately kill one of your opponent's attacking or defending Footmen". The defensive player used a 3 leader card which still would leave the combat factors equal, but the only active defending unit in the attacked area has been eliminated. So who wins? The defender stands higher on the Fiefdom track.

Thank you for any answers.
 
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Joel Schuster
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Re: Clarification needed
Pioneer27 wrote:
1) The Robb Stark leader card says, "Attacking Knights in your army add +3 to your combat strength instead of +2." Does this bonus apply to supporting Knights?


No, only attacking, as the cards say. There is a clear distinction between attacking, defending and supporting units which several cards address specifically.

Pioneer27 wrote:
2) The same kind of question could be asked about Renly Baratheon also. It says, "If you win this battle, you may upgrade one of your Footmen to a Knight. That Footman must have participated in the battle as either attacker or defender." Are supporting Footmen "participating" in the battle? Could one of them be upgraded?


No, only directly attacking or defending units are participating in a battle.

Pioneer27 wrote:
3) ... but the only active defending unit in the attacked area has been eliminated. So who wins? The defender stands higher on the Fiefdom track.


Fiefdoms doesnt matter here. Whenever the last unit directly participating in a battle (attacker or defender) is killed, he automatically loses the battle. This is a special case for Ser Loras Tyrell which is clarified since the very first version of the official FAQ.
 
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Re: Clarification needed
Pioneer27 wrote:


3) Situation: Two Knights of Tyrell are attacking an area with one defending Footmen. There is also a routed defending Footman from an earlier battle who retreated into the area. (I know he provides 0 defense but he is present in the attacked area.) Because of defensive support, the combat factors are equal (5 to 5 in this case). Tyrell uses the Ser Loras Tyrell card which allows you to "Immediately kill one of your opponent's attacking or defending Footmen". The defensive player used a 3 leader card which still would leave the combat factors equal, but the only active defending unit in the attacked area has been eliminated. So who wins? The defender stands higher on the Fiefdom track.

Thank you for any answers.


A retreated unit provides no combat strength but still a battle still occurs, your strength with no other units is the strength of the leader card played. If defeated it is eliminated as it cannot retreat a second time. In your example the defender would win forcing the Tyrell knights to retreat.
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Chris Montgomery
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Re: Clarification needed
Our two posters have two different interpretations. What do the rules say?

Chris
 
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Re: Clarification needed
cmontgo2 wrote:
Our two posters have two different interpretations. What do the rules say?

Chris

Nogser is correct. A routed unit has combat strength of zero, but it is still a participating unit.
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Joel Schuster
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Re: Clarification needed
Yes, but if Ser Loras kills that unit and if its the only unit directly participating in that battle, the battle immediately ends, since one side has no units left to fight.

In the example posted, Tyrell wins the battle.
Check the FAQ entry about that, I am 100% positive !
 
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Re: Clarification needed
Umbratus wrote:
Q. If Tyrell attacks a region containing a single defending
Footman, and, for his House Card, he selects Ser Loras Tyrell (Immediately kill one of your opponent’s attacking or defending Footmen units), is that an automatic victory, or do the defense and support values still count?
A: Although not specifically stated in the rulebook, whenever the last unit on one side of a battle is eliminated (not including support units) through a special ability, the battle immediately ends in victory for the side that still has units. The House Cards’ strength is disregarded, and the House Cards are still considered used.


That should settle the matter. Whenever Ser Loras is played against a lone footman (attacking or defending) its an automatic win for Tyrell, no matter if that unit was routed before, no matter your house card, no matter you supporting strength. Thats how it is
 
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Brandon
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Re: Clarification needed
That doesn't clear up anything.

I'm tossing in another vote as the routed unit counting. He simply provides a strength of 0.
 
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Re: Clarification needed
Lol, do whatever you want, the rule is clear for me and that is since more than 5 years.

The thing is that the footman is immediately killed, so there is no actual fighting unit left, so it doesnt matter at all whether that footman provided 1 or 0 strength.

Its a special case for Ser Loras, in all other cases, its different. A routed unit counts as a directly fighting, thus it can hold ground with supporting units and cards. But if its immediately killed and its the only unit, the battle ends right there.
 
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Re: Clarification needed
Found the answer in the official FAQ:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/a_game_of_thro...

"Q: If my opponent only has routed units on his side of a battle, are House cards still played?

A: Yes. although routed units have a strength of 0, they are still present for the battle and can win due to House Card play and other modifiers."

Your last post seems to put you under the impression that the ONLY defending footman was the routed unit. The OP stated there was two footmen, one of which was routed. Loras killing one footman still leaves the routed unit, which is what everyone else has understood.

See: "one defending Footmen. There is also a routed defending Footman from an earlier battle"

2-1=1. Yay, math.

And to be clear:

Umbratus wrote:
Its a special case for Ser Loras, in all other cases, its different. A routed unit counts as a directly fighting, thus it can hold ground with supporting units and cards. But if its immediately killed and its the only unit, the battle ends right there.


No one will dispute that. If it were ONLY the routed unit, then of course the battle is over after a Loras card.
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Joel Schuster
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Re: Clarification needed
Noone was disputing either that cards are played against routed units.

The question clearly was about what happens if Ser Loras is played against a single routed footman.

So it seems alot of things are discussed here at the same time

 
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Re: Clarification needed
Neverfade wrote:
The OP stated there was two footmen


Ah, ok, my bad then. I overlooked that tiny information. Thats a different matter. My apologies. I was talking about a single footman being the defender, not two. If its two Loras can just kill one of course, no matter if routed or not. The other footman may hold the ground then.
 
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Dennis Firth
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Re: Clarification needed
Wow! I didn't expect to set off such a debate. In the situation I was referring to there are two Footmen in the defending area. One is routed and the other is not. I looked up the FAQ and found the reference to Ser Tyrell and it is clear enough, but in our situation there was a routed footman still in the area. I just wondered if that made any difference? Thanks for all the responses---I didn't mean to cause trouble!
 
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Re: Clarification needed
Pioneer27 wrote:
Wow! I didn't expect to set off such a debate. In the situation I was referring to there are two Footmen in the defending area. One is routed and the other is not. I looked up the FAQ and found the reference to Ser Tyrell and it is clear enough, but in our situation there was a routed footman still in the area. I just wondered if that made any difference? Thanks for all the responses---I didn't mean to cause trouble!


No problem, I hope you got the clarification you needed, and we did not muddy the waters further.

So to summarise:

1) If the power of the Ser Loras card removes your opponents last attacking or defending unit from an area, Tyrell automatically win. The opponents house card is considered played.

2) If, after using the power on the Ser Loras card, your opponent still has units (even if routed) in the area, recalculate total power for both sides and resolve the battle as normal.

3) Routed units defend at a power of 0 but may be supported and a leader card must be played if they are attacked.
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Re: Clarification needed
Btw, who chooses which of the footmen dies?
 
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