Chris Larkin
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OK, so first playthrough, two players, I was overlord, my son played 2 heroes.

First play, he took his time, wouldn't open the door to the second area until he felt he was ready, I kept spawning monsters in the room and he ended up never being ready, I stopped him in the first room and won.

Second game, he decides waiting is for chumps and chooses the run approach. Game goes like this...

First hero runs into first area, grabs chest, (Sold it for 750) moves into the middle of the room.

Second hero, runs to the transport and goes to the town.

My turn, I swarmed the remaining character with all the monsters in the room and kill his hero. His hero goes to town loses half gold.

He has enough money to buy three vitality potions for each character easily at the store.

Next turn, he runs to the next chest, takes the money, and runs to the transport. Used all three potions to run that far.

His next character, also with three potions, pops into the newly activated glyph, grabs the rune key, runs to the next area, activates the next glyph...

This continued until he got to the end, it was easy for him to buy vitality at the town, grab chests, take the money, and move both characters back to the town before my turn. Rinse repeat... that seems broken to me? I didn't have enough to spawn monsters after him, and he left so many of the area monsters behind they couldn't catch up to him in the final room before he won. Maybe we missed a rule somewhere.

Some other questions came up we couldn't resolve...

When a hero picks up a chest? All players get a copy of what's inside? IE: Each player gets 2 gold treasures if that's what it says? That's sort of how the rules read... and if that's true, does the overlord get a new set of the amount of curses for each hero?

When you discard the treasure for the money, are you allowed to look at it first? He drew a gold treasure card that said take 150gold and a vitality potion... why not just discard it and get 750 and buy a dozen potions?

Thanks!

 
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Christian Grundner
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Yes you made a few mistakes according to the current rules...

1) Each hero is allowed to drink only ONE potion each turn.
2) Each hero can only use the Townportal once each turn.

These rules are exactly to plug the exploit your son found.

According to the current rules the hero can no longer sell the treasure chest for full price. He has to go to town and sell for half price there.

Regarding chests:
The curses and treasures are multiplied with the number of heroes. The quest markers are not.

have fun
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Peter Folke
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Some clarifications:

1: You can only use 1 potion per hero per turn. This isn't in the rulebook, but it is in the FAQ. Kudos to your son for discovering this exploit on his own
2: You can't turn in treasures for gold when you draw them. You have to go to the town shop and sell them (at half price). Again, this isn't in the rulebook, but it is in the FAQ.
3: When a hero opens a chest, every hero get a copy of what's inside, and the Overlord gets 1 threat per hero per curse.
4: The gold treasure that says 150 gold + vitality also says draw an extra treasure card.

I hope this helps!
 
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Matt Davis
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It seems like if he's running back and forth to town that much, you should be able to spawn monsters all over the place, especially managing to completely surround the Runes so when he comes back he has to fight a ton of guys.

I'm not sure how the play balance goes with only 2 heroes, so maybe that's affecting things. Don't forget you can sell cards for extra threat tokens to make sure you can spawn all the time. Also, were you moving all your monsters along with the heroes? Seems like they should be able to keep up with the heroes decently well.

As for the rules questions, yes everyone gets what's in the chest and the overlord gets however many curses for each hero.

Second, are you sure you can discard a treasure for the full amount? I know you can sell one to the shop for half price, but I don't recall being able to just take the full amount of gold instead.... Also, the treasure cards that have some gold and a potion should also let you draw another card, IIRC. I'd check those carefully to be sure.
 
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Karl
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Cupcakus wrote:
OK, so first playthrough, two players, I was overlord, my son played 2 heroes.
First play, he took his time, wouldn't open the door to the second area until he felt he was ready, I kept spawning monsters in the room and he ended up never being ready, I stopped him in the first room and won.


2 hero games are insanely hard. It is recommended to only draw on card/turn as overlord in that scenario

Cupcakus wrote:

My turn, I swarmed the remaining character with all the monsters in the room and kill his hero. His hero goes to town loses half gold.
He has enough money to buy three vitality potions for each character easily at the store.
Next turn, he runs to the next chest, takes the money, and runs to the transport. Used all three potions to run that far.


2 errors here:
1. Only one potion is allowed per turn as per the errata.
2. You may only use one glyph per hero per turn. That is you cannot start and end you turn in town while running through the dungeon.

Cupcakus wrote:

When a hero picks up a chest? All players get a copy of what's inside? IE: Each player gets 2 gold treasures if that's what it says? That's sort of how the rules read... and if that's true, does the overlord get a new set of the amount of curses for each hero?


Yes and yes. However, make sure you aren't confusing copper and gold chests. They look quite similar in color.

Cupcakus wrote:

When you discard the treasure for the money, are you allowed to look at it first?


As per the current rules (errata) you may not discard the treasure in any case. You can only sell it for half price in town.

Cupcakus wrote:

He drew a gold treasure card that said take 150gold and a vitality potion... why not just discard it and get 750 and buy a dozen potions?


Cannot remember that such a card would exist at all. They are usually of the form draw a vitality potion AND a new card. Or draw 100 gold and a new card. There is no card without that draw a new card AFAIK.

Also note the copper/gold color probelm I mentioned. Sounds a lot like you are drawing from the wrong pile.
 
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Stephen Stewart
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Also,

Spawning must be made outside the LOS of the player characters, I believe.

As the player character delays by going to town over and over again, you still obtain cards to discard and earn points for the much better cards.

Don't necessarily attack the strongest character, eliminating the weaker character will win the game. As the characters defend the weak ones and spending resources to do so, makes their stronger characters weak for a critical strike by your best cards/traps to immobilize his power. Then you piecemeal him apart.

Change up your strategies.
Also, there are variant rules allowing only 1 or 2 special character trait cards for the player characters. I think 2 is a good balance. 3 can be a lot giving way to much power early on and not really giving a challenge and thus a lot of FUN for the players.

Descent is a really fun game when the characters are on the edge during the game. A walk through dungeon is boring for all.
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Phil McDonald
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An assumption that such a universally popular game might be broken is a bit of a stretch. I think I would just have said 'What are we doing wrong?'
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Michael Kefauver
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Right. The chest rule and potion rule you missed are pretty major, as you could see. Fix that, and it'll be a lot easier. Your worst case scenario after that will be a perfect party.. Which happens only once in a blue moon, but is quite humbling when it does.
 
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Tim Stellmach
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philmcd wrote:
An assumption that such a universally popular game might be broken is a bit of a stretch.

Well, except that the assumption was actually correct, which is why the relevant rules were changed in the errata.
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Phil McDonald
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timstellmach wrote:
philmcd wrote:
An assumption that such a universally popular game might be broken is a bit of a stretch.

Well, except that the assumption was actually correct, which is why the relevant rules were changed in the errata.


Which means it ISN'T broken !! d'uh !

Is it only me that gets errata and FAQ for games that I get? I don't think so.
 
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Chris J Davis
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philmcd wrote:
timstellmach wrote:
philmcd wrote:
An assumption that such a universally popular game might be broken is a bit of a stretch.

Well, except that the assumption was actually correct, which is why the relevant rules were changed in the errata.


Which means it ISN'T broken !! d'uh !

Is it only me that gets errata and FAQ for games that I get? I don't think so.


No, it's only the people who realise that boardgames sometimes come with FAQs and erratas on the publisher's website, which doesn't include 99% of people out there.

Don't be such a patronising idiot.
 
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Phil McDonald
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bleached_lizard wrote:
philmcd wrote:
timstellmach wrote:
philmcd wrote:
An assumption that such a universally popular game might be broken is a bit of a stretch.

Well, except that the assumption was actually correct, which is why the relevant rules were changed in the errata.


Which means it ISN'T broken !! d'uh !

Is it only me that gets errata and FAQ for games that I get? I don't think so.


No, it's only the people who realise that boardgames sometimes come with FAQs and erratas on the publisher's website, which doesn't include 99% of people out there.

Don't be such a patronising idiot.


Well you seem to be doing a pretty good patronising idiot impression yourself there sunshine.

If the comment had been made by someone who didn't know about BGG, there could be some validity to your fascile remark. But as the comment was ON BGG, that can hardly apply. Errata sheets and FAQ's are here on BGG, not just on publishers websites.
 
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Robert Lavigne
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Cupcakus wrote:
First hero runs into first area, grabs chest, (Sold it for 750) moves into the middle of the room.


Everyone else has already done a fair job of adding tips and corrections, but judging from this I believe you read the map wrong. The first chest should be a copper chest, not gold. See the chest in the final room for the difference in colour between the two -- I'll agree, it's not significant.
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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philmcd wrote:
An assumption that such a universally popular game might be broken is a bit of a stretch. I think I would just have said 'What are we doing wrong?'

Criticizing posters for using completely reasonable wording that doesn't happen to be exactly what you would have used is a bit of a stretch.

Your assessment of the assumption is much more of a stretch. Games can have pretty serious flaws and still be quite popular. In this particular case, the game being played actually is broken, in several respects:

(1) they were playing with pre-errata rules known to be broken;
(2) they were playing with a number of heroes the game doesn't adequately support; and
(3) they were playing a quest that is known to be deliberately lopsided for training purposes.

And the OP didn't even claim that the game was actually broken, just suggested the possibility that it could be. Complaining about that would be fairly ridiculous even if the game wasn't actually broken.
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Phil McDonald
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Get off your soapbox fella.

It was a lighthearted comment, and included a smiley to emphasize this. I had no problem with the orinal poster, just some of the subsequent knee jerk posts.
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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When you make a post whose sole purpose is criticism of another poster, even a light-hearted one, you don't have much room to complain when people point out that your criticism is off-target. Especially when you've already argued about the correctness of your criticism.
 
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Tim Stellmach
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philmcd wrote:
I had no problem with the orinal poster, just some of the subsequent knee jerk posts.

Would that include the knee-jerk post where I pointed out that he was actually right? Or did I misunderstand what you meant by "d'uh?"

First rule of getting out of a hole: stop digging.
 
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Phil McDonald
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The point was, he wasn't right though, and nor were you. If you are using BGG, but not it's resources, then d'uh !!

I can only just hear you from down in that hole, want a ladder?
 
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Rob Miller
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Nerd rage!
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