T. Nomad
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...and not in the fun way:

Quote:
From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression - and they're about to do it again.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29127316/the_grea...
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Destiny's got her hand way, way up in their puppets! It's an unpleasant tingling! The deepest of wriggles!
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Well, if Rolling Stone says so, it must be true.
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mistermarino wrote:
Well, if Rolling Stone says so, it must be true.

Name us a reliable media outlet?

Matt Tabbibi's a pretty good investigative journalist.
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I think it's an excellent article. And eerie in a way because of the section on the oil bubble.

Last year when prices were rising I spent a fair amount of time scanning the cable news shows to see what what being said. Almost every channel agreed that it made no sense because there was plenty of oil. The only guy who laid out the scheme was Bill O'Reilly. And he was livid.

At first his demeanor and aggression pissed me off but I went back and watched his show several more times after doing some reading and I have to say... he was spot on. Pretty much everything this journalist says is what O'Reilly was saying over a year ago.

It's no secret except to the vacant-eyed uber liberals that Cap & Trade is a huge scheme to create an oppressive tax sham on Americans and shunt the money to firms like Goldman Sachs. If you spend even an hour reading up on it... even articles that promote it... you'd have to be a complete moron to fail to see the shell game.

Like the author of the article, I pretty much feel hopeless that any of this will ever change for the better. All you get from the Left are snide comments about "conspiracy" and from the Right you only get snide comments about the Left.

Meanwhile, like Tommy says, you're being fucked in the ass with no lube.
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David, can you comment on the final page of the article? Scary stuff.
 
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tommynomad wrote:

Byline of article: "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression - and they're about to do it again."

Calling DWTRipp - "It's early June in Washington, D.C. Barack Obama, a popular young politician whose leading private campaign donor was an investment bank called Goldman Sachs — its employees paid some $981,000 to his campaign" - I think its time you revised downwards your respect for your President.

This article describes a new level of mis-application/wastage of the bail-out money that Yanks and their grand-children will be carrying. And they payed 1% tax - these guys should be put in charge of America - just give them strict goals, an incorruptable overseer and death penalties for failure.

Global warming skeptics: here is a driver for the AGW scenario: "The new carboncredit market is a virtual repeat of the commodities-market casino that's been kind to Goldman, except it has one delicious new wrinkle: If the plan goes forward as expected, the rise in prices will be government-mandated."

Here is the acid test.
If you see this as an accurate description and claim about the future then the way to becoming a philanthropist on a Gatesean scale is open to you. Just speculate on the carbon trading market. Like Al Gore, (but we'll call that investment).
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David desJardins
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Latria wrote:
David, can you comment on the final page of the article? Scary stuff.


I will since you asked. There's no question that creating a market for buying, selling, and trading carbon permits will create profit opportunities for large, sophisticated traders like Goldman Sachs (as well as hedge fund mavens like Jim Simons, who is a slight acquaintance of mine). This is one main reason that progressives generally favor a carbon tax---but we can't pass that. On the other hand, it's surprising to see conservatives bemoaning this, since they have, for decades, have been the foremost advocates of unrestricted trading and speculation and protecting the ability of sophisticated market traders to profit at the expense of less sophisticated market participants. It would be pretty easy to substantially close this drain on the markets simply by instituting small fees on buying and selling futures---these fees would be relatively negligible for the people who are buying and selling for legitimate business purposes, but have a much bigger effect on speculators who trade more frequently. This is something that progressives have been advocating for a while, but it goes nowhere because of (1) conservative opposition to any kind of "market interference", (2) conservative opposition to any kind of "tax", and (3) the excessive influence of bankers on Capital Hill, where they basically "own the place".

Some of the specific claims and opinions in the article are sort of dumb. Obviously, it's true that voluntary action can't solve the problem of climate change, it's silly to criticize Goldman merely for making that obvious observation, or for being farsighted enough to invest in renewable energy that we do need. Exxon is investing in renewable energy, too, for much the same reasons as Goldman, even though they've been on exactly the opposite side of the policy argument. It's also totally silly and wrong to say that "private interests collect the revenues" from cap and trade. In the long run, the government collects the revenues, by selling the permits. In the short run, the energy industry collects most of the revenues, because the government is going to give them permits for free. Wall Street doesn't collect any of the revenues, and to quote someone saying that they do is absurd.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
This is one main reason that progressives generally favor a carbon tax---but we can't pass that.


Thank you, David. I'm sorry if this is obvious to others, but may I ask why this cannot be passed? If it is the lack of political power, don't the Democrats now own the Congress and the Presidency?
 
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Latria wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
This is one main reason that progressives generally favor a carbon tax---but we can't pass that.


Thank you, David. I'm sorry if this is obvious to others, but may I ask why this cannot be passed? If it is the lack of political power, don't the Democrats now own the Congress and the Presidency?

Because the Democrats want to remain in power.
 
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Latria wrote:
I'm sorry if this is obvious to others, but may I ask why this cannot be passed? If it is the lack of political power, don't the Democrats now own the Congress and the Presidency?


Not all Democrats are very progressive. The bigger your majority gets, the more of your caucus comes from swing districts that are pretty conservative, the Democrats who come from those districts can be pretty conservative too. And it's not a system like countries with proportional representation, where the party has a lot of power to select the candidates and therefore power over them. Getting Democrats to line up to support anything is like herding cats.

If Republicans have been successful at one thing over the past few decades, it's demonizing "taxes". Most anyone in Congress is going to prefer anything not called a tax over anything called a tax, for rank political reasons.

Cutting across the issue of progressive vs. conservative is the issue of regionalism. In general, the east and west coasts use more clean and renewable energy. The midwest and south burn more coal. The coal states emit way more CO2 per kilowatt hour, so they have more to lose from a carbon regime. They also tend to be more spread out, so people drive more, in less efficient vehicles, again releasing more CO2. The net result is that even the Democrats from the midwest tend to be much more recalcitrant about limiting CO2 emissions, and more inclined to want handouts for the biggest incumbent polluters, like the coal-fired plants in their states, who also tend to be big contributors to their campaigns. It's easier politically to arrange big handouts in a cap-and-trade system than with a carbon tax, because you just give the carbon permits for free to the polluters. Bad policy, but good politics.

Finally, I'm sure that you understand that you need 60 votes in the US Senate to pass this sort of legislation. There are only 60 Democrats total, two of whom are in very poor health. And there are very few Republicans, probably at most two, who are at all likely to cross party lines to support a Democratic bill. So that supposed Democratic majority is very fragile, when it comes to actually passing legislation.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
So that supposed Democratic majority is very fragile, when it comes to actually passing legislation.


Not fragile enough, but one has to find the silver lining...
 
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Hmm, I really must update my scorecard.

The focus of American corporate evil is

The Military-industrial complex
The Nuclear Power Industry
OPEC
The Japanese Car Industry
McDonald's
BCCI
Big Tobacco
Microsoft
Wal-Mart
Enron
Halliburton
AOL
Exxon
News Corporation
Drug Companies
Google
General Electric
General Motors
AIG

Goldman Sachs

Now it's the Jewish bankers. This can't be a good sign.

I thought Americans were above this one tribalistic conspiracy theory. I hope they don't get their windows broken...
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A criticism of Taibbi and alternate view:

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/07/matt_ta...

And a response to a criticism of the above:

http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/07/villain...
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sikeospi wrote:
Hmm, I really must update my scorecard.

The focus of American corporate evil is

The Military-industrial complex
The Nuclear Power Industry
OPEC
The Japanese Car Industry
McDonald's
BCCI
Big Tobacco
Microsoft
Wal-Mart
Enron
Halliburton
AOL
Exxon
News Corporation
Drug Companies
Google
General Electric
General Motors
AIG

Goldman Sachs

Now it's the Jewish bankers. This can't be a good sign.

I thought Americans were above this one tribalistic conspiracy theory. I hope they don't get their windows broken...

now that's just not fair. Corporations aren't people, and are in fact are totally amoral.
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Goldman also appears in the NYtimes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/17/opinion/17krugman.html?_r=...
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Goldman Sachs are scum






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I was actually surprised this took so long to be posted in RSP.

Matt Taibbibi has published two amazing, evisceratingly-informative articles the past couple months, that should be required reading for every adult American before they can qualify to vote.
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bjlillo wrote:
"The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."


You say that like that's a bad thing. Their job is to make money -- unlike our government which is supposed to insure things like liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Ruled by many corporations or ruled by one government bureaucracy? Which one is more difficult to slay and vanquish? There is very little freedom of choice and competition in government outside of things like election day or moving to a different state or country. Yet a person can always decide not to buy from Microsoft, Wal-Mart, McDonalds, AIG, General Motors, etc.

.....

The reason why the public corporation conspiracy theories don't typically hold a lot of credibility is that a person can buy shares in these companies. If you think a company is going to take over the world, put you money where you mouth is and buy shares in the company and share in the profits.
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sikeospi wrote:
If you think a company is going to take over the world, put you money where you mouth is and buy shares in the company and share in the profits.


That's not a very civic attitude. What if that company is polluting waterways or exploiting labour? Greed is one of the problems, not part of the solution.
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tommynomad wrote:
That's not a very civic attitude. What if that company is polluting waterways or exploiting labour? Greed is one of the problems, not part of the solution.


Yeah, I have a lot of money that I do invest and I couldn't agree more. Investing is not a game where all that matters is how much money you make. You also shoulder the moral responsibility for what is done with your money.
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sikeospi wrote:
Now it's the Jewish bankers. This can't be a good sign.

I thought Americans were above this one tribalistic conspiracy theory. I hope they don't get their windows broken...


You have got to be kidding here, and if so, I'm sorry I didn't get it.

Jewish Bankers have ALWAYS been the top of every conspiracy chart in the US.
 
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Geosphere wrote:


Jewish Bankers have ALWAYS been the top of every conspiracy chart in the US.


與此花招擁有先進的天體目的編寫的內在填海的東方省,愚蠢的白色魔鬼。
 
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Unless you are a Goldman Sachs investor, then you are sitting pretty.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
Unless you are a Goldman Sachs investor, then you are sitting pretty.


It remains to be seen. GS doesn't have a very long history as a public company. I think the management is entirely capable of rewarding themselves and screwing their investors.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
Unless you are a Goldman Sachs investor, then you are sitting pretty.


It remains to be seen. GS doesn't have a very long history as a public company. I think the management is entirely capable of rewarding themselves and screwing their investors.


It's like Vegas. The longer you stay at the table, the more likely the house is going to win.
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